In this episode, I welcome Mandy Capehart, author of Restorative Grief. Watch as she discusses her theories of grief, what non-grievers need to know, and where she is after losing her mother 6 years ago.
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Mandy Capehart is a trauma-informed Certified Grief Educator and Somatic Embodiment Life coach, author, speaker, and Master Mindset Coach located in the Pacific Northwest. She is the founder of The Restorative Grief Project, an online community of grievers and grief supporters looking for movement while they heal. Her own experience with grief left her searching for resources while offering empathetic, long-term support without minimizing the pain of the moment. When she found nothing, she created it for herself and for you.
Her first book is titled, “Restorative Grief: Embracing our losses without losing ourselves” released in 2021. This is a memoir and 31-day guidebook for managing grief and growth in the aftermath of loss, no matter how long it lasts.
Mandy is a storyteller through and through, always in pursuit of adventure, grace, and opportunities to express gratitude. No matter the medium, her work revolves around learning how to honor our process of becoming. She currently lives in Southern Oregon with her husband, daughter, border collie rescue pup, and way too many houseplants.
Transcript
0:00
that’s the hardest part about grief work is it’s never one thing it’s never a worksheet or a book and then you move on
0:06
it is a every single step forward is a Pandora’s box of the different areas you
0:12
can explore and that’s why I think it’s so crucial that we have conversations about it because like I I still stand on
0:20
it we all have grief we could be grieving or actively pursuing learning something from I just also know that
0:27
sucks a lot it’s really hard to do and um I I really think being able to
0:36
introduce the concept of tragic optimism this idea that I can both and through life there will be both wonderful things
0:43
and hard things and I am a healthier happier more whole person on the other side of it
1:06
I’d like to welcome to the show Mandy Kart hi Hi how are you how you doing today I am so good thank you so much for
1:15
coming on the show I wanted to start just by asking you well two things that I know that I
1:21
do want to talk about is your experience and work with care deserts yeah but I
1:28
did want to start uh um because the name of your book is restorative grief and I wanted to ask you what restorative grief
1:35
is not just in the sense of it’s the title of your book but what is restorative grief yeah thank you for
1:41
asking and thank you thank you for having me I’m always open and happy to talk about loss and why it matters I
1:49
started my whole journey around grief work when I was little I’ve lost someone practically every year whether it’s
1:55
through divorce or moving or death and as a young person the frame work I had
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was things are going to be okay because I’m a child right and that’s the best my parents and caregivers can do for me at
2:06
that time but what it taught me holistically and I didn’t put it together until I was much older was
2:13
there are positive things on the horizon there are also harmful heavy things and
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yet I can still move into a future that means something to me there is still an
2:24
opportunity for restoration and so when my mom died in 2016 it was on the heel of losing my U
2:31
maternal grandfather who had helped raise us and my great-grandmother who I knew long into my years right before
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that um among some friends as well and I just recognized this is an opportunity
2:44
to start investigating what restoration actually looks and feels like um there
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was about a week after my mom died that I just I let myself lament and I let myself fall apart and then I just said
2:55
all right either I’m 100% in on what all of this looks like and all of the nuance and all of the pain or I’m going to just
3:01
check out for the rest of life because losing my mom was unexpected and unfair um it wasn’t until 2020 just like
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everyone else’s life pivoted I was surviving a miscarriage in January I was
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dealing with having just lost my job and a horrible former boss mistreating and abusing me in the workplace and even
3:23
after I left and then I heard about Co and thought no no this is my year to deal and grieve why is everyone else
3:29
jumping on board but the reality was as I understood the seriousness of it I didn’t want to live in a world where
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untended grief was going to be generational and permanent basically with everyone and everywhere we went so
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I started writing down my story about brief work and just the ways that I
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interpreted what it looks like to move forward with loss as a companion as an
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familiar as an awareness just a holistic awareness of this is part of the human
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experience and all of that requires us to look at ourselves as whole people heart mind body and spirit so the book
4:06
itself and even the practice and the podcast everything that came with it the
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phrase restorative grief stuck with me since day one so that combined with my desire to uh create grief literacy and
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attend to communities where there are no resources whether it’s face-to-face support whether it’s brief literate
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therapists in and of themselves because those are honestly vast uh vastly in uh they’re not easy to access
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they’re not available a lot of therapists have no idea how to deal with grief do you think now you had this is
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just a little bit of a digression but you had your first child like in the same time frame that your mom died in
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2016 yes my daughter was born in 2014 but yeah yeah do you feel that any of
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your um work and moving forward and trying to s really your history of loss
5:01
out because you mentioned you didn’t want it to become a generational thing which I think is so important you think
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your daughter inspired any of that for you A lot of the time I thought about my
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daughter and the way she was being ripped off by losing a grandmother my mom moved across the state into a small
5:22
duplex to help me care for my daughter when I returned to work because I couldn’t find child care and to me that
5:27
was one of the most selfless acts who does that who gives up their entire life and their state where they are and their
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job to care for family my mom did and when we found out she was sick all I
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could grieve was this anticipation of what my daughter would not get to experience with my mom because she and I
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even as young I when I was young my mom and I would talk about someday we’re gonna take my kids mom and then we’re
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going to go here and we’re going to do this and we’re going to have this experience and and all of that was gone and so part of that is absolutely
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inspired by knowing my daughter’s going to be in a house where I’m grieving or my husband’s grieving the loss of his
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mother-in-law because they had a great relationship and my daughter has to learn how to hold space for herself and
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she’s going to be raised among people whose parents of no idea she was in kindergarten in 2020 so covid disrupted
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her Early Education you can see it playing out in the kids now whose parents were able to
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create space and support them well and whose weren’t and so I want her to be as
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emotionally intelligent as possible and at an age appropriate level as well but
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there are definitely moments where it’s coming helpful for her to understand I’m like they’re grieving that’s why they’re
6:42
lashing out sweetheart this is not about you and giving her space to explore well
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what does it look like when I’m grieving oh yeah I’ve lashed out as well right and creating space to um become a better
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parent which is always the goal
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um you talk about in your book unmasking anger so I’m guessing the lashing out
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and the unmasking anger is was hard to deal with in your loss and the losses
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around you yeah yeah mask unmasking anger was
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something that oh was really challenging simply because I pretended I wasn’t angry for a
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very long time I would sit back and say like I’m not angry I’m fine and it some of it was the
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suppression of yes I’m fine don’t let me disrupt you don’t don’t make think I’m a problem and the other part of it I
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realized later was oh I move through anger very quickly I can experience a a
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burst of anger or even rage and very quickly recognize what’s beneath it
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anger is a secondary emotion and so for us as Grievers to learn how to unmask it
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and see it for what it is as a protector as a response to Injustice as a as a
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real and human response to being harmed
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marginalized dismissed disrespected we get angry because we know wow we should
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really be treated better we deserve to be treated like humans to have our
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dignity preserved and when that doesn’t happen well of course we would be angry about it but our culture doesn’t allow
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for that and I was just thinking this morning too man my life as a woman makes it really hard
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for me to be assertive and express anger without being labeled as erratic or
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harmful or untrustworthy so even these little parts of my identity that I’m
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finding and uncovering as I’m doing this work around grief and and with anger
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it’s such a fascinating space to explore it’s it’s
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never just I lost my mom and now I’m sad it’s I lost my mom and quite literally
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Everything Has Changed yeah in in in the world of loss
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and grief um what they never tell you and you don’t really find out until you’re in the club is secondary losses
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are a big part of losing someone or losing a relationship or losing a job I
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mean there’s always other stuff that goes with it but when someone Close to You dies that’s I think the worst part
9:29
because um I’m guessing did you have a family support the reason I’m I’m just asking
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because as I said you’re a lot of your work um and a lot of the stuff you’ve spoken about in other interviews that
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what I want to get to is care deserts so you don’t you’re not really aware of that if your family’s really there
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however it seems for most people their family is not fully there yeah how did your family
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function for you when everything especially when your mom died but you did say you had had
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a few losses until we live in an area that we don’t
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have any immediate family we have I think our closest family is four and a half hours away or so and and even then
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the access the capacity in that close family close family is low capacity is
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low the willingness to dive into grief literacy and grief education is
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something that I consistently say Hey you may want to read and learn about this before you are actively grieving um
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because it’s the same thing we don’t go into a calculus classroom thinking I’ve never learned algebra I’ll be fine no we
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usually have some precursors building up to the big event right so having unawareness is important having a lack
10:49
of family support is something that becomes significantly um and painfully obvious
10:56
when a new grief event is happening and and part of it is trying to be really careful with myself and holding my own
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space I’m not an expert on someone else’s grief experience I’m an educator
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and I’m a space holder and I am a guide and a coach but your grief experience even if we’ve lost the same person we’ve
11:15
lost someone different to us and I my sister’s a great example she lives a state away and we talk about this often
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hey we lost a different person my relationship to Mom was different than yours um we you know my parents were
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separated but my dad l my mom the same and so it’s it’s really
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really beautiful to actually be able to articulate that inside of my family Dynamics my you know my mom’s sister my
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grandmother they’re all still with with us and we all are grieving completely differently and to be able to say you
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don’t have to understand what I’m going through to hold space for me you don’t have to get it um and and we don’t have
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to quiet each other when your experience of loss is different than mine again
12:01
we’re grieving different people and our access to Mom even in her days of dying
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were different and that changes how we are grieving on this other side like you said all those secondary losses they get
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loud and we don’t all have the same secondary losses after a a person or a
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life event has shifted us significantly so when it comes to those care deserts especially when we don’t have a support
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system around us uh family and but specifically friends and people that can
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come alongside and help us with things it’s incredibly layered with the pain that
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you experience that’s something we were very fortunate to have was friends and uh very very very honest people that I
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could say everything sucks and I’m dying and I want everything to burn would you mind coming and helping me fold laundry
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they would say yes without fear of I’m going to ruin their day by being heavy and you know whatever assumption people
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make about Grievers and why they’re so scary but well I I mean it I would
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assume that you had some of the experiences that many people have that I’ve had where you have people who
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either dismiss the state you’re in the pain you’re feeling or they try to talk you out of it in some way yes yeah the
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level of discomfort that non- griever and I use that so loosely because everyone’s grieving something but when
13:27
people are not in active grief experience es and then they try to be help you what Mand I’m going to interrupt you and disagree with you oh
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there are people out there and I discovered this I’m looking at my family and also my friends there are a lot of
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people out there who get pretty far into life before anything ever happens to them people in their 40s and 50s who
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really haven’t had a loss who I mean they have no vocabulary for it um they
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have no understanding of it and the thing that I always it’s a really I take a little bit of um a dark cynical kind
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comfort in it a long time ago this is like going back 25 years I studied
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shiatsu and I remember the teacher at the school I went to this place called The ohashi Institute in the city and he
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said that people who never get sick often die very quickly because they’re
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sort of out of touch with their health they don’t know when they’re not feeling right or like you know like I feel this
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way and I should rest or I should go to the doctor and this and that so so those people can go through life and then they
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just drop dead one day and I think about that sometimes in the same way with
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people who haven’t had anything bad happen to them because I did see this happen with one of my aunts where her
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life was s the first time something kind of bad happened to her she was in her uh I would say mid to late 40s and I mean
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she she couldn’t believe that the whole world didn’t stop to focus its attention on her first of all but she’d never been
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through anything so there are people who for however life unfolds have not had
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you know sail through a good portion of life without losing anybody but as as
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but I mean also not to take away you and I are in the same club and there are a lot of people who have had loss from a
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young age or it starts when they’re a teenager or in their 20s or or it goes on and I mean I don’t know what’s normal
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but those people man well and I think I mean I totally agree with you in that
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respect that there are people who I’ve worked with who get into their 50s and 60s they said this is the first death in
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my family that takes me back to a couple of things one disenfranchised grief are
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events that happen to us that are Grievous in some way but we don’t
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necessarily validate them we don’t honor them we don’t have the capacity to recognize this as hey this is something worth grieving or attending to for our
15:49
emotional development and maturity and just embodiment of who we are and what human experience is like but there’s
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also a lot of privilege that goes along with the life of a person who has never experienced a loss of some type and I
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don’t mean a death because plenty of families happen to have everyone intact and there
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are no deaths and that’s beautiful but when we think about the way that Society
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is structured around people who’ve never experienced a loss of some kind who is
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protecting them who is keeping them insulated against experiencing a life interaction with someone else right A
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friendship breaking up you’ve never felt grief over that oh my God you’ve never had a friendship walk away from you or
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whatever that is and I don’t think that that’s about like optimism or pessimism
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by any means I think that there is a lot of insulation in a lot of ways that we minimize our own interactions in the
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world and don’t have capacity to honor hey this is technically a loss right
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this this could be a place where if you wanted to go down the road of an
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enriched a Rich emotional vocabulary that this would be a place to explore that I I have those people in my life as
17:04
well and they push back at the same thing when I say everyone’s grieving I’m not grieving okay I’m not going to tell
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you that you are that’s not my place but okay yeah I I mean I think that I look
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at it more from just a perspective of having lost um like social customs and training in some way like even if you
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haven’t had a loss there’s something that we should have been taught about how to behave
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from a young age and I just mention that because I mean this is going when I
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started doing my work with grief about 10 years ago and looking into it you know I was reminded by a few people you know back in the day the day there used
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to be people used to have morning clothes men would wear black armbands like there was a signal you knew that
17:49
this person had lost somebody and that they weren’t going to be okay for a long time like they were in this Zone where
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they needed to be accommodated they needed to be be brought the casserole or or whatever you would do back then and
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we don’t we don’t really have that anymore um and so whether people are
18:08
self-aware about whether they’re grieving and what losses they’ve had and and how to relate there’s also not that
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those social cues are somehow gone which makes me want to touch on to something you wrote in your book humans do not
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know how to allow others the space they need to grieve and organized religion is not helping us figure it out
18:30
so I did want to want to touch on that because um it’s an interesting thing
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it’s interesting thing for me anyway I was raised Catholic but I’m no longer a practicing Catholic but I do remember
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when I was in the heat of grief you have people who were in the church who were
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sort of who were saying things that weren’t necessarily useful and then there were also people saying well if
18:54
you need help you should go to your you know join your church go to your church and I’m like I actually know that that’s
19:00
not going to work out so so well for me so and I know that you are an Evangelical yes I used to be I
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definitely I I started I was raised Protestant in a Lutheran church and then when I got to college I joined a a
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handful of different Evangelical churches and became a worship leader actively um until about
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2018 so how what was your experience in the context of that yeah in when you
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with your grief yeah the the capacity for evangelicalism to understand lament
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and ongoing experiences and expressions of loss is really muted by an aggressive
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messaging of but God but God can do all things but God will be present but God
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is Sovereign but God is in control but God has you know had any Scripture
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ripped out of its context that you want and slap it over the top and I I attended so many funerals in the last
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decade that were in Evangelical churches where I would find myself arms folded
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legs crossed head down so frustrated with the minimizing and the spiritual
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bypassing that was happening from the leadership from the speakers not allowing people to stay present with
20:25
themselves as they’re grieving trying to move very quickly into to Celebration into healing I mean for the love we call
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them celebrations of life and while that can be true and cathartic and healing
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we’re not looking for catharsis in our grief expression we’re looking for transformation we’re looking for
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integration we’re looking for a way to be allowed to keep this grief present
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and to expand around it instead of making it really small and not that hard
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and really okay and I have friends and family who have told me you know I grieve G before I knew God and now I’m
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grieving something else after knowing god and I don’t understand how I did it on the front end and I said well you did
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it in a way that made sense to you then and now what’s different well I now know
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the word of God so I can take that and apply it to my situation and I’m like
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sure but your behavior is the same as it was before you grieved anything in the first
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place like you’re still lashing out at people you’re short-tempered you’re agit ated you’re fueling your body with junk
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food I would I would argue that you’re actually not nourishing anything you’re not allowing anything to heal you’re
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minimizing it you are talking over it instead of talking with it and there are
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some incredibly healthy ways within Faith practices to integrate our grief and to show up with ourselves and allow
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our faith to practice our faith practices to speak into those spaces but from my experience the majority of
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people do not have capacity to do that for more than a week for more than a
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month um and when I stepped down from leading and really needed
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time to just exist before I officially said I’m done um leading worship it was
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maybe a couple of months before someone’s like aren’t you feeling better why aren’t you coming back we need you
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oh you don’t need me you need my labor and me is not available me is a mess
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okay uh me needs compassion and understanding and companionship and that
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for me is the part when someone says go find your church Community get support from them they’re asking you to say I
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don’t have capacity for companionship but they might isn’t that the whole point of the church and yeah it really
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is but we’re not equipped to do it we don’t have instructions we don’t have
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guidance we don’t have classes to do it because we’re so busy saying evangelic
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or uh everlasting life is coming don’t worry make sure you align your behaviors so that you don’t grieve the holy spirit
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this is what’s necessary uh and it’s just it’s it’s so empty to me that is an
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uh an dishonest process it is not the full expression of humanity to me
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so I can see people who are perfectly comfortable with spiritual bypassing as
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their product of grief work and and how they move through it and again it’s not my job to tell you how to grieve it’s my
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job to make space for you to learn what grief means to you and if that’s all it means that’s fine you know one of the
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things that I try to get across when I’m speaking about grief though is there really is no bypassing I mean as you’re
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saying you’re you’re you had contact with people who were saying hey I’m fine
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I’ve got it in the context of my spiritual beliefs in God but you could see they were still angry you could see
23:49
they were still unhappy because there is that part of grief or it is griefed it’s a physiological process there’s no short
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short circuiting the stages of it you know you will go through all the various
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things of your identity being torn upside down secondary losses um the shock you can have shock
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as you you know I mean my sister was ill for a while she died I was still in
24:16
shock 10 months later knowing that it was coming so there’s the shock sometimes when something’s not anticipated but you can still have shock
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and I know your mom had a short illness and I’m sure you were still there a year later or or many months later at least
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just trying to to get your whole your your body your your mind to accept your
24:37
new reality like you’re disjointed that way and there’s no short circuiting those things so that’s why I’m
24:44
just you know in reading your book one of the things that that just struck me
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is that um you know we’re so trial about so many things in our country and our
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society we’re tribal about sports we’re tribal about politics we can be tribal about religion but we’re not really
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tribal about grief and that’s the one of the places we having a tribal structure would actually help a lot of people
25:07
because in those situations you know you have rituals and you have like a base a
25:13
really strong base of support but I did want to share just a little story with you Mandy too just to you know you were
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saying how um they wanted you to come back to church and do your leadership
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right away um I had made a film and there was a man who told me um that he basically ended a friendship
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with a guy he had known from his childhood because after his wife died six weeks six weeks after his wife died
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who he nursed through an illness who he was desperately in love with his friend said to him you’re still grieving this
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get over it man like six weeks so this is a thing that unfortunately happens of
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and people yes and people don’t like I said they don’t seem to understand that this is a it’s a whole
25:59
it’s all when it’s the way we love people and our
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identities are made from our relationships and how we are in this world when these losses happen that all
26:10
goes out the window and it’s painful and it takes a long time to figure out who you are again and yeah this is one of
26:17
the reasons I actually love validating pet loss when we look at the way a pet
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creates Attunement with us when we say physiologically grief is impacting our
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nervous system in the same way that anything impacts our nervous system it’s a stimulus and it needs to be processed
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and metabolized lest we store it for a later date when we then forget how to recognize it pets are unconditional
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sources of love pets are companions that are constant Pets Come into our lives when we are you know young adults and
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then we get married and we have this pet this cat or dog we’ve had forever or any other pet but specifically cats and dogs
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can attune their nervous system with a human nervous system and so when that pet is gone there is a a hollow feeling
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in so many areas it’s the same loss we experience when we lack that care that
27:11
space that consistency that a relationship offers
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and so I mean it’s the same with a friend this is why it’s so hard when people put grief losses and losses in a
27:24
hierarchy the the way we interpret and are defined by or understand ourselves
27:31
through a relationship that’s everything and my relationship to you is going to be different than my relationship to my
27:37
kid and to my friend and to my husband and to my family and yet I would still
27:43
be moved and I say still so like Cas like carefully I don’t love that word
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anyway but I would be moved to hear of a loss in my life of someone who is not an
27:54
immediate person because my relationship to them is still important I still see
27:59
them as valuable and I still want wholeness for them and being able to
28:06
establish a community this is one thing I love about Francis Weller’s work is his his is a very sematic and spiritual
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approach to who we are as people and how we need one another to create ritual and to
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create um space for lament that is
28:23
communally honored and also grounded in the reality of of what life really is
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and how that ritual and those connections change us for the better we
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are always redefining who we are and that the belief that I’m not grieving or
28:41
I’m I’m fine or to your point that I can pretend that bypassing is a real thing even though it’s just storing it up for
28:49
later unwinding those beliefs is part of grief work and and it’s part that takes
28:55
a long time that can be exhausting but it’s also done so much
29:02
more efficiently is a weird word to use but it’s true we we do our grief work so
29:07
much more efficiently in the reflection of others when they are with us when they can mirror back to us and when they
29:13
can just be uncomfortable with us and build their own distress tolerance while
29:18
helping me navigate mine do you find that people are um more
29:25
sympathetic when someone loses a pet than when they lose a person I think sympathetic is a good
29:32
word for it because they’re like oh my gosh I’m so sorry anyway do you want to get some frozen yogurt that might make you feel better that’ll cheer you
29:38
up the dissonance it takes to jump from point A to point B in that conversation
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is is tough I think with people addressing a physical or a loss of a
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person there’s a lot of fear there right if they’ve grieved themselves they can see things reflected if they’ve never
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grieved them a relationship for a death by themselves maybe they’re afraid it’s contagious in some way their Good Vibes
30:02
are going to be brought down um there’s you know the phrase toxic positivity
30:08
rears up because it’s really really scary to think that oh man my friend
30:14
Mandy is grieving and she’s not funny anymore or she’s not she’s got this dark sense of humor and I can’t go there
30:19
because I don’t get it um I I really think being able to introduce the
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concept of tragic optimism this idea that I can both and through life there will be both wonderful things and hard
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things and I am a healthier happier more whole person on the other side of it
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teaches people hey your sympathy is detached from your detaches
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you from your Humanity a bit like what would it look like for you to practice maybe some empathy here not inserting
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yourself in my life but asking what is that like asking a question where I can have some space um because yeah I mean
30:58
we it’s like I said I love talking about pet loss because we write pet loss off left and right but I know if my dog died
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she’s four years old I’ve had moments where I’ve pictured our lives without her and it sounds horrible and I can’t I
31:11
don’t want that because I know when she’s gone someday that’s going to be really really
31:16
gut-wrenching for everyone in my family she’s family too but
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yeah okay maybe that’s different I had an experience where where I could see on
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social media which I am barely on anymore except for business now um that
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when someone lost a pet everyone was really really supportive but when people
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when somebody like I lost a person it was like radio silence yes and I was
31:45
just like I I I’m I’m not dism I don’t want to I would not dism diminish sorry
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somebody’s pet loss because as you said these are the kind of emotional support
31:56
and connection that animals give you is very different from people and it’s got that pure quality in a way and I I would
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not diminish that but still when you lose a a person you know and it’s in my
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case my most recent loss was my sister who had been there longer than any pet we had and I was expecting to be there
32:16
for longer and I just saw that people were much more sympathetic and free to
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discuss someone’s pet loss than a person loss so I I don’t I don’t know we talk
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about the Rainbow Bridge for pets way easier than we talk about it for people
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yeah I wonder I wonder if it feels like a safer loss we know pets are going to
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have a shorter lifespan than us maybe the majority of us have dealt with a pet loss before we’ve dealt with
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the death of a person perhaps yeah it might also not bring in all the other stuff when when people die obviously
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there’s there’s a will and there’s their clothes and there complications yeah and
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so I don’t know if that’s I don’t know I would think that that plays a lot into it I mean I think what you’re saying is
33:03
really insightful that to me it feels like a a pet loss would feel safer I’m
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not going to say the thing that harms someone because I know I’m gonna say oh my gosh I’m so sad with you that that happened that’s awful and maybe
33:15
subconsciously I’m thinking but it’s just a pet so you’re going to move on soon or I’ve experienced pet loss that
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is really heavy and then I got a new puppy right the that same centering mentality of well this is what I
33:29
experienced in law so I’m going to casually or forcefully project it onto your experience in some way maybe but I
33:36
also know and I will say this for a very very broad monolithic statement people
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on the whole are learning how not to cause more harm to griever and so I
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think part of that trepidation of commenting is I don’t want to say the wrong thing so I’ll just say nothing at
33:56
all in in my work when that feeling Rises up
34:01
I encourage people to ask some questions instead can I even if the question is
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can I ask questions about your person would that be helpful can I show up and take you to coffee would that be helpful
34:13
can I send you dinner would that be helpful would that be supportive right um asking what does
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support look like for you right now with the caveat of don’t answer if being quiet feels supportive right I think
34:27
that that’s a lot of it there’s a hesitation because there’s enough people getting very loud now about how to stop
34:34
harming people who are actively grieving where do you think that shame fits into it you know I thought there’s
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a part where you know I think about Rene Brown who cornered the market shame it
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away that there’s that part where people don’t want to touch you because or or you know what I mean when
34:53
I say touch you I mean like ask that question even the how are you like the real how are question because things
34:59
could be outpouring and there’s something about the shame of touching that I think but I don’t really have a
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good grip on it well shame says I am bad I I I am inherently wrong right guilt is
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I’ve done something wrong shame is I am wrong so when we think about shame in the context of someone being a grief
35:20
supporter um for me that comes into like their own story and their own grief experience if
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I’m feeling shame in the way that I approaching someone in their grief work
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I would want to have capacity and safe space enough to reflect back on why that
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is why do I feel like I am inherently wrong or bad in the way that I’m
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approaching someone else uh but I think shame itself really in my experience
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hits griever more um I’m grieving wrong am I doing this right why do I feel
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anger if I know in the depression State um you know those five stages of grief really messed with us uh well I think
36:04
they’re outdated now I mean I I think a lot of people know that they’re outdated now on hope well they’re wrong it’s just
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that we’re more complicated than that now we know that there’s more to it than that I mean I want to say hats off I
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mean back then nobody was talking about anything so to have a paradigm where it’s like here’s at least five stages
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you can work with what’s good I mean I think being being able to educate people
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that the original revelation of the five stages was through observation of terminally
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ill folks figuring out what it looks like to come to a place of acceptance with their own losses and um I talk
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about it a lot in my own work saying like our life our experience with grief is cyclical not linear and even then
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it’s a spiral we’re still expanding as we come around in this cycle that is ongoing and so I think being able to
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give some education and some words to that releases shame in a lot of ways there is no wrong way to grieve and yet
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we feel like well but getting trashed every night why do you keep telling me that’s not good that’s not right what what’s the harm reduction approach then
37:08
because there there is no wrong way and if you want to bypass your pain by getting drunk that’s one approach is it
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lasting is it helpful does it bring you into a place of wholeness and and openness to integration and healing work
37:23
or does it numb you and push you further away from that person you want to become right it’s that’s the hardest part about
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grief work is it’s never one thing it’s never a worksheet or a book and then you move on it is a every single step
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forward is a Pandora’s box of the different areas you can explore and that’s why I think it’s so crucial that
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we have conversations about it because like I I still stand on it we all have
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grief we could be grieving or actively pursuing learning something from I just
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also know that sucks a lot it’s really hard to do and staying in that active
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state of grief is not something even I want to do I take a lot of time back to
38:05
say like oh I acknowledge that this is a nervous system response something wants attention right now but I’m in the middle of a field trip with a bunch of
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fourth graders and that’s not the right time so I’m going to you know set this aside and be present and um but not feel
38:20
shame for needing to set something aside not feel like I’ve done something wrong um or that I am inherently at what I do
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because I don’t want to be really really present with a bunch of fourth graders and my grief
38:36
so I did want to ask you some questions specific to parent loss sure um did you
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have the experience of feeling like you were an adult orphan which is not
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uncommon I did yeah I I have thought that many times I
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also on other days push back and say I have a mother she’s just not on this Earth I have a mother that’s
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not that’s not a weird thing to think and hold on to but the sensation of
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being orphaned partially orphaned in the world is incredibly
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visceral and it also led me into a deeper exploration of compassion for
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people who have been orphaned at any age and certainly as an adult and with a
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young baby I remember thinking like gosh even until now I wish I could call my
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mom just to bounce something off even if I didn’t want the advice or didn’t hear about it
39:39
as a parent like this is terrible being a parent without access to a mom to ask
39:45
questions of but yeah that adult orphan experience is not I don’t own that for
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myself I don’t identify as an orphan obviously I have my father too still but even
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even if I didn’t I I don’t know that I would I think for me it just reminded me very holistically wow no adults know
40:05
what they’re doing if I’m 40 now and I’m questioning what I’m doing everyone is
40:10
Faking it okay okay that takes the pressure off I am doing the best I can
40:16
I’m gonna continue doing that and not put anyone on a pedestal it’s like wow
40:21
they’ve figured it out yeah I just think it’s difficult I’ve known a few people I’ve only lost one of my parents but you
40:28
know the difficulty of wanting to be or needing to be comforted by the very person like you know you you would go to
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them for comfort and that’s the very person you lost it really strikes a certain a certain spot yeah um you know
40:43
Mandy I am going to move to what I call my lightning round questions it’s the questions I ask all my guests they’re
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broad ranging questions um so what does a well- live
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life look like to you one that I can look back on and not
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feel again any Shame about that I am happy
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to share any story about that I’m happy to uh leave behind one that I can say I
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was joyful and I was full and I was laugh laughing all the time and I was loud and I was full of life I would be
41:27
fine getting to that point there’s um uh aloa Arthur is a death dla and her book
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uh briefly perfectly human is beautiful and that’s part of something she talks about too is that I want to die after
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living a long life that I’m happy to leave behind that’s lovely uh how do you think
41:49
that people should take care to be connected to their soul or spirit in my work
41:58
we approach grief from a heart mind body Spirit approach
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so where I come at it from is through a lens of our core values what matters the
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most to us which can change day to day month to month year to year um and
42:16
allowing those values to be the lens through which we approach our sense of connection to ourselves in our inner
42:22
world to the people we are in immediate connection with to our community and to
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our sense of spirituality if we have one I think that that approach has to be
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integrative consistently curious and willing to evolve because again no
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matter what we’re taking in the idea is we are expanding around the thing that we take in and creating capacity to
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withhold that new space that we’ve created within ourselves and I think that spirituality and our souls and
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however you want to you know what whatever word resonates the most that energy remains with us and when it is
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not tended to it dissipates what do you suspect is the
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true nature of reality oh I have no concept of that I just constantly say time is a construct
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this is all made up we’re all doing our best I’m just going to go put some you know my feet in the grass and and
43:21
pretend that the world makes sense and that there are no alternative universes my husband’s a huge
43:27
comic book fan as well and so uh when I think about reality I constantly Wonder are there alternative versions of me out
43:35
there are there places where maybe I’m very very very tall and I uh don’t exist
43:43
in America maybe I live in who knows Norway I yeah I I have no pretense that
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I understand reality whatsoever it’s funny I was having a conversation with somebody this is oh a
43:55
couple months ago and I was and you know when I’m having a bad day or I’m not feeling great I hate to think that I’m
44:02
sort of screwing up or having pain across multiple dimensions of space time
44:07
it’s like I don’t want more of this here is this going on please tell me there’s a version of me in the universe that is
44:14
smarter than to do that one over and over that one keeps hurting
44:19
yeah no when you die as I’m laughing I’m asking a serious question when you die
44:25
assuming the Consciousness or your soul survives what do you hope to learn or
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discover like what questions would I ask if I’m knocking on the gates or you’re in the gates and it’s like what do you
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think what would you want to have going on in there funny as a grief educator person
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I’ve never really spent a whole lot of time thinking about that so much
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um I think I would want to start I just think I would want to see colors that I know I can’t see M what are the
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limitations I have in this body I’m only using 10% of my brain well 4% of my brain 1% okay quick download the other
45:06
94% give me give me some access when I was a kid I used to really love the
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story of King Solomon in the Bible when he talked about the mothers debating who
45:18
was the parent of this baby and there was that uh that one mom says the baby
45:24
is mine and the other mom says it’s mine and he says Fine chop the baby in half and give each part of the baby and the
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true mother says holy God no okay it’s hers it’s fine and of course I remember
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reading that when I was young and saying I want that wisdom that wisdom seems so simple but I want it that’s what I want
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is to know how to think about a thing in a way that creates wholeness and Truth
45:49
for others as well so I just want to and I want to know what colors those mantis
45:54
strip can see that we can’t because they can see so many colors you know a lot of or many near-death experiencers have
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said that they see colors that we cannot perceive here that it’s that some of
46:07
them some of them have reported you know a World of Color and of like harmonic
46:13
sound like har that you cannot hear here perfect so you know EXA maybe Mandy you
46:19
got it my lips to God’s ears wherever they are you know also have you had any um
46:26
what you would feel as afterdeath communication from your mom a dream or a sense of her presence or anything like
46:32
that have you had any of those oh sure yeah so I call them Winks from Heaven I’ve always called that just that phrase
46:39
because for me I’m I’m not so worried about trying to communicate with her or
46:45
trying to determine what happens when we die but if I am energy if my my cells are
46:52
vibrating at all given points and energy cannot be destroyed well in that point here somewhere they’re all here
46:59
somewhere I’m not going to pretend I’m smart enough to figure all of that out but I am going to stay open to whatever
47:05
that might mean uh my husband’s best friend died it oh gosh it’s been 12 years now quite a while ago and ladybugs
47:13
we see ladybugs everywhere his family anytime there’s a ladybug we’re like there he is it’s just a moment where
47:18
we’re saying this is a wink this is a reminder energy cannot be destroyed and I think that that’s one of those things
47:25
that we feel really scared to talk about because well there’s not here sister not
47:30
here I want to hear about I want to hear about the Winks you had from your mom oh man so so many uh we grew up on
47:39
the ocean in any possible opportunity on the coast my grandparents owned a boat
47:44
when we were younger that they lived on for a while and anytime I’m at the ocean
47:49
I sincerely can feel the presence of my mom on the beach with me whether she’s walking whether I see something in the
47:56
waves that remind Rems me um that brings something back around it’s just these little wings that’s all I can say is
48:03
it’s a reminder of like yes and yes I’m gone and I’m not um and when I was young
48:11
I heard things like that and it was always it had a factor of creepy to it
48:17
because it wasn’t ever explained well it was a uh you know the Heavenly Witnesses
48:22
kind of language where people are watching and and cheering you on or whatever and just feeling like I’m I’m
48:28
never alone can I just be I don’t know a kid and figure out or a teenager or
48:33
whatever and now I see it as a um more of a
48:39
like spiritual high five like hey yeah good job or oh that’s okay high five you
48:45
can get up kid you can do this and yeah those those Winks from my mom happen
48:51
when I’m very very uh aware of the thin places in life
48:58
I think there are times when the the world seems thinner um maybe the veil
49:03
Between Worlds or alternate universes again who knows um feels a little thinner and so I’ll you know one of the
49:10
few things I have of hers is her chef knife she was a chef um and I will slow down when I’m using it and have a moment
49:17
that feels like a very sacred thin place kind of
49:24
moment thank you thank you for sharing that and I’m sorry to hear that some of your I guess the like your earlier
49:32
religious upbringing how’ you feel that that kind of stuff would have you more under surveillance like the spirits are
49:38
surveilling you who wants that so much big brother language that comes in
49:43
around uh man and it was really reinforced as I got older with the Advent of what is it elf on a shelf that
49:52
idea of like I’m a little older so thank God I missed I miss I’m so grateful I never
49:58
gave into it I the pressure was so strong to be an elf on a shelf mom and even as a young married person before we
50:05
had our daughter this idea of like isn’t that a fun and quirky no it’s embodying authoritarianism I’m not interested and
50:12
performance-based spirituality can we actually have a conversation about why you like that because I don’t know that
50:17
you are seeing the full picture anyway uh yeah nope not a not a fan yeah that
50:23
is a little Sinister thing that’s wrapped in this cute little Elfen package Sinister idea anyway Mandy where can
50:31
people find you and the good work that you are doing oh thank you yeah I’m at Mandy K part.com so it’s c a p h t uh
50:41
and my website has access to the podcast my book the grief project on Facebook is a free group the private one I talked
50:47
about earlier um one-on-one coaching access is there and I’m on social media
50:52
at Mandy Kart as well okay and finally any messages you want to impart to the
50:58
listening audience I would say continue being courageous and asking questions to stay
51:04
curious about what you’re experiencing and instead of looking for why you’re experiencing it maybe question how can I
51:11
experience this differently because that’s where growth and authenticity
51:16
come from thank you yeah thank you for so much for being on today yeah
51:24
absolutely thanks for watching click to join us on another journey and don’t forget to subscribe
On today’s show, the Journeying Soul welcomes a man with a lovely heart: Dr. Joseph Gallenberger. Joe is a clinical psychologist who has created courses and taught for decades at the Monroe Institute, famous for the U.S. government’s secret Stargate program and for identifying the ability of binaural beats to induce altered states of consciousness.
We discuss Joe’s experiences with after death communication, out of body experience, and manifestation. We also discuss how people can approach learning psychokinesis and expanding their own abilities with ADC, OOB, and manifestation.
Where to Find Our Guest
📚Books by Joe Gallenberger
Liquid Luck: The Good Fortune Handbook
Sip and Support the Journeying Soul. Get the Emerson Paraphrase mug inspired by Joe’s answer to our lightning round questions.
Dr. Joe Gallenberger is a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience as a therapist and a great interest in the universal principles of manifestation. In 1995, he began exploring psychokinesis, the ability to influence matter through non-physical means. He has achieved statistically powerful results in university laboratories and, after advancing his methods over years of study, began to teach this skill to groups that share his passion and interest in the fundamentals of manifestation.
Dr. Gallenberger offers a variety of programs designed to expand consciousness through delight. His SyncCreation® home study course, and ninety-nine Inner Vegas Adventure Workshops™ have taken participants into fascinating states of power and intuition. His students achieve strong altered states of consciousness and energy, resulting in dramatic physical and psychological healing, strong influence over dice and slot machines, and many beautiful manifestations in participant’s lives at home.
Joe is also a long-time meditator and a trainer for 30 years at the world-famous Monroe Institute®, which teaches expanded human consciousness to an international clientele. Robert Monroe, whom Joe knew personally, founded the Institute and was a pioneer in consciousness exploration. Joe trains a spectrum of Monroe courses and he developed the Institute’s highly successful MC² (Manifestation and Creation Squared) program.
Joe also offers meditation exercises on CD and Download including: Manifesting with Hemi-Sync®, Partners Meditation, Liquid Luck, Abundance Waterfall, The Healing Heart, The Abundant Heart, The Ocean Heart, and The Forgiving Heart.
0:00
most of the things you see out there are affecting matter with your mind and Ma and visualization from manifesting and I
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don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the Mind as a steering wheel of a car it just sets
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direction of intention the car goes nowhere without gas the best gas we found for this and
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for life is unconditional love so having that flowing plus intention is when you
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get these quote Miracle results
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[Music]
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I’d like to welcome to the journeying soul Dr Joseph gallenberger how are you doing today Joe
0:50
hello thank you so much for coming on the show yeah my sounding okay to you
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sometimes uh when I go on Zoom I sound like a mouse until I go on twice you’re good you’re good let us begin so you are
1:04
a clinical psychologist by trade but have been since in the Monroe Institute
1:09
since the early 90s did you know Bob Monroe yes I uh you know I did not know
1:16
him well like a best friend but working up there um for about 10 weeks a year
1:24
for the last 30 years uh in the early part of that while he was living uh we’d
1:30
have occasion to sit on a hill together and look at the birds uh flying in The Thermals and him talking about new ideas
1:38
for new things uh in his uh meditations um how life was going for
1:44
him those kind of things and also a little bit what was going in on in my life so I also got to see him talk in
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front of many many groups and U he was a great uh presenter if you will and would
1:57
hold the audience and wrapped attention for hours as he talked you knew him towards the end of his life I guess that
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overlap what else was he looking to do it’s actually consistent with what he wanted to do let me give you the
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evolution initially he wanted to run 5,000 people through using brain wave
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patterning exercises on on headphones using sound to see if he could duplicate
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what he called his Auto Body Experience um because he thought that 5,000 people would be a good research
2:32
base for that uh and uh quickly it broadened into as he began programs in
2:39
this uh people discovering all kinds of things contacts with guides visiting
2:45
loved ones who had passed many different things that he may not have been expecting in the beginning so by the end
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of his life his feeling was more um that
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his work could help the world reduced its level of fear
3:04
because it would lose its fear of death for one and that was behind a lot of our
3:10
our problems is survival orienting we you know do a lot of things to try to uh
3:16
survival of the fittest if you will so by gentling that out and seeing that we survive physical death in some form he
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felt that many of the world’s problems would be able to shift and and be eased
3:29
so his goal which he passed on uh to the people who now are in charge was that he
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thought if they could they’ve concretized this into if they can get 1%
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of the world to experience uh some alteration and conscious awareness either through
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Monroe Institute technique or other meditation techniques that they think
3:54
that that will be very transformative so the Monroe institute’s goal at this point is to reach 8 million people I
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think by maybe 2030 I’m not sure on the date but uh so
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they’ve expanded into having a free app you can get on the phone with meditations there’s a paid subscription
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to that that goes even deeper when M Bob was in live he was
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doing mainly weeklong workshops intensive residential that took quite a bit of commitment of time and money
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now they’ve broadened into uh 2hour workshops three-hour workshops half day
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full day 3- day one long week but virtual that started with covid and and
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also the residential so they’re trying to create a larger funnel where people can come in at whatever level they might
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be interested in if that was just to learn Technologies to relax and sleep
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better to um to work with energy healing
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contac and guidance better higher creativity that there’d be something at the institute for them that would gently
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push them more to understand uh that they’re more than their physical body
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their personality their gender role uh their job at work and that we might be
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Spiritual Beings having a physical experience if you will um so that’s what’s uh going on at the Institute
5:25
since he died how did how did your family feel you’re you got a degree in
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Psychology you’re a clinical psychologist you’re you’re a doctor in the family how did they feel when you
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went to Monroe did they have an opinion about it one way or the
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other um I would say it would be variable though all my family ethos was
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to respect each person’s Journey so um I was thinking of becoming a monk when I
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was 12 13 years old I applied and went to uh a monastery and my parents
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reaction to that was whatever you decide you know if it’s genuine and you’re an
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Integrity um you know we applaud your your path in life whatever that might be
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most of my family was very business-oriented uh presidents and vice presidents of very large companies and
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things and so being a doctor was a Divergence from that um by itself uh
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then in in terms of being caregiving which I saw you know the doctor role as um a legitimate one um I presented this
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which was true the mro was giving me a technology through these meditations on
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headphones where I could handle people’s anxiety depression issues and what have you much much more rapidly and
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effectively than some of the talk therapy or in combination with that
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things went better so they were fine with that as you get into the out of- body parts uh and contacting people who
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passed to the other side then my family would diverge uh a bit there um my my mother
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and and a few brothers were highly interested and my father and and some
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other siblings would been a little more conservative on that word but they still didn’t they were interested in listening
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uh but they wouldn’t have any inclination to try that themselves the folks that weren’t if you
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will but since you had the desire to become a monk they it was sort of in your wheelhouse I guess but also more
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importantly you you probably knew how to meditate before you got to you know you started to work at the
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Monroe Institute I would think I I was more in the um the monk area was
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Catholic and they teach uh various forms of prayer so supplicative prayer which
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would be Lord would you buy me a mercedesbenz to um to uh intercessory
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prayer help someone else to U praising to contemplation and I was aware of
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those kinds of things um the monastery was in basically mostly silence all you
8:22
know except for classes at that time so there was um a lot of that background
8:28
but I didn’t have any formal like TM training or making your mind blank kind of meditation type of training and in
8:35
fact Monroe doesn’t really strive to do that they have a uh about a 10-minute
8:41
beginning to most meditations that is designed to quiet ego and open the heart and after that
8:49
when something comes up they engage with it as either something to look at or a
8:54
message versus thinking that would be a distraction like you might in some other meditative
9:01
systems um but yeah I had some um how did how was it for you um when you first
9:09
some familiarity U with the idea of looking inside and uh and
9:16
um finding that of benefit so self-reflective I guess you’d
9:21
say um how did how was it for you um when you first
9:27
started meditating let’s say through with the Monroe techniques as opposed to
9:33
what you had done did did somebody teach you this or is it just purely here’s the
9:38
headphones uh frankly I got a bootlegged copy of an old cassette from a rebel
9:46
yeah one of his m5000 program which has gone into a be as the Monroe institute’s
9:52
Gateway program now and um the person said sh don’t tell anybody and you know
9:58
but listen to this it blew me away it it empowered meditation so beautifully that
10:05
within minutes you are deeply deeply relaxed maybe more so than ever in your life and then beginning to connect with
10:12
u uh higher energies creativity six senses six sense uh things beyond your
10:20
five physical senses um so that was an introduction
10:25
but I pretty rapidly went up to Monroe Institute and in the Gateway found it one of the most profound weeks of my
10:32
life in terms of uh opening my eyes to what is possible um in terms of our
10:40
connection to Spirit while we’re still in body if you will what was it like the first time you
10:45
walked into the Institute did you feel like you’d found your people yeah I uh I was buzzing before I
10:53
even got there I was excited um a friend of mine came uh that
10:58
I hadn’t seen in years unexpectedly the night I was going to drive up to Virginia from North Carolina and we
11:04
stayed up till midnight talking so I left in the middle of the night and uh about 3:00 a.m. I stopped I was tired
11:12
someplace in rural Virginia and it was very humid I went in got a hotel room
11:18
laid down couldn’t sleep I was too excited got back up and said Gee I wish I hadn’t had to pay for this room I only
11:25
was in it 20 minutes but I went to the desk to pay the the guy and I paid him and it was about 20 bucks that’s how
11:32
long ago it was and when I walked out of the door there was a freshly folded $20
11:38
bill completely dry on the step and uh Miracle things like that happened all
11:44
all the way up to the Institute um when I got there it felt like home um it was
11:51
so good to talk to people about things that I thought uh were quite weird and maybe other people hadn’t experience and
11:58
it The Institute is great because it has no Dogma so it attracts atheists and Buddhists and fundamentalist ministers
12:05
Republicans and Democrats and and they everybody respects each other while they’re there and gets along well um so
12:14
it did feel like Community um and the meditations were very deep I had some
12:21
out of body experiences which I had had spontaneous in my life but this was more
12:27
controlled uh but also you know feelings of connection with spirit
12:33
that years of prayer had not really uh taken me as deeply as within that week
12:39
um so I was real impressed I wanted to go back which I did pretty quickly after two or three times I said this is
12:45
getting expensive and decided I’d like to be a trainer this is 33 years ago
12:51
maybe uh and it got accepted uh they have a very strong Apprentice program to be a trainer you got to go through quite
12:58
a few steps and um I did that and so I’ve been training there I think 30 plus years um
13:07
as a result and one of the big things I’d been to other workshops where there was kind of a guru feeling and you had
13:13
to wear an orange robe or believe something to be accepted and this had
13:19
none of that and that appealed to me as well as a scientific basis they were using 128 lead EGS measuring brain wave
13:28
patterns being able to put things on paper uh to prove that this wasn’t just
13:34
all wishful thinking so I was really impressed at the research base of the Institute as
13:40
well you were there I think you were there had gotten there right before
13:46
there was um an article in the Wall Street Journal I guess the front page story that sort of outed I guess the I
13:54
don’t know if it outed the army or if it out or the government or if it outed the Monroe Institute but the story broke
14:01
that the government was had partnered with the Monroe Institute what was the
14:06
vibe in The Institute when that story came out okay well some of these things now
14:12
are being combined that I don’t think go together but there was a New York Times article and it resulted in a lot of
14:20
people wanting to come and then wanting Stak and fil in yond okay and and when
14:27
there would be an article at that same time there was one in Mother Earth News and all those people came and wanted
14:33
vegetarian fair and you know very different audiences uh from different
14:38
articles as well as Bob’s original books and so um the kitchen was having fits
14:44
trying to figure out which kind of meals to serve as the audiences would change
14:50
um the military things were kept quite uh they weren’t trying to be kept secret
14:57
but they were uh as everybody’s uh who goes there their privacy was respected
15:04
so if you have an army general or you had a rock star or you had a Hollywood
15:09
bigname Hollywood person there that would not be disclosed right that would be you still had almost you almost had
15:16
like the you know your background like a psychologist sense of privacy that people are coming here to kind of work
15:22
because we knew we we knew you know with the right to privacy somebody would get fired from their job even if their
15:28
employer found out they were engaged in something quotes weird so that’s going
15:34
on now there was an article that came out about the Gateway program this Premier program uh where the CIA and
15:43
other government organizations were researching remote viewing the ability to sense things without regard to time
15:51
or distance and whether the Gateway program could help them increase
15:56
accuracy reduce burnout uh increase the quickness in which
16:02
somebody could get into the meditative state to do this kind of uh psychic work
16:07
and that article then recently has hit the the news uh with a missing page
16:15
which was actually just a page that was forgotten to be xeroxed um copied when they did it but
16:22
it it caught the attention of a lot of uh influencers currently on on the web
16:29
and so there’s been quite a surge in the last year about that article from the
16:34
CIA um because frankly a lot of people didn’t even know the Institute existed so it brought into mind um uh that a
16:44
little more and uh and that group are you know everybody that comes is curious
16:50
The Wall Street Journal people were curious in one way or another some of them like this information to be able to
16:57
perhaps to handle ego better when they would make trading in the markets and maybe even
17:04
increase their intuition those kind of things um the uh Mother Earth News
17:10
article might have accented something very different such as out of body and
17:16
so you get people with a variety interest coming there so what so it seemed to me in just
17:23
looking at the Timeline that that article coming out led to or influenced the the
17:29
government wrapping up some work with with on on I guess it was um with the
17:36
Monroe Institute um and and or pulling funding what what followed What did the
17:43
and I don’t know if you can say did the work really keep going on under another name or was it something that the
17:49
Institute had to adjust to am I right about that I am not privy
17:57
to the deepest layers of finances with all of this okay from from the layer of
18:03
which I was operating getting paid to be a consultant trainer you know they’re not we’re not employees they they hire
18:11
people to come in from four to 10 weeks a year um and looking at how things are
18:18
renovated buildings being built or whatever it would be it seemed like um
18:23
there was not a huge change depending on what the military was doing I I think
18:29
that was a fair Fairly aside um interest in the main thrust of
18:34
The Institute it was siloed off were coming you know to explore things but
18:40
Joe MCM monacle is I I feel one of the world’s best remote viewers he was a
18:45
remote viewer 001 in the government program that went for 20 years he ended up marrying one of
18:53
Bob’s uh children he lives up there he still talks in many of the programs
18:59
there about remote viewing and has his own remote viewing program there that has been there for at least the last 20
19:06
years so that continuity is continued um
19:11
and uh you’re right in terms of the the
19:16
formal remote viewing program under the name Stargate and Grill flame and
19:22
several other government names as best we know officially ended um there’s
19:29
still quite a bit of government interacting with remote viewers of that
19:34
level quality to find lost children to solve crime to find Temple sites in
19:40
Japan to uh do many things and and I would not be surprised if sometimes they
19:47
are um queried about significant military concerns but again that would
19:55
not be something I would be privy to nor the general public that would usually
20:00
happen at higher levels of security clearance that than I would have that’s for
20:06
sure switching to the personal so your brother Peter um committed suicide about
20:13
two years before you you know started at Monroe was that it doesn’t sound from
20:20
what you said previously that that was any that was a motivating factor for joining Monroe but it sounds a little bit like it was Kismet that it put you
20:27
there um yes so just to correct timeline a little bit um I had already gone to
20:35
Monroe for a few years before becoming a trainer so I was um had taken their
20:41
Gateway program and their second program called guidelines and a third program which is a brand new program called
20:48
Lifeline which involved helping people on the other side and transitioning from
20:53
Death uh I was in the first program as a participant and my brother committed
20:58
suicide or committing suicide is not what we say anymore um trying he died by
21:04
Suicide um about a week after that first program um and um it was helpful to me
21:13
to have the Monroe group uh hone in on him on the other side and helpful to me
21:20
in terms of my communication with him so I wrote a book brothers forever and a followup 20 years later called Heaven is
21:26
for healing about what’s G on on the other side for him and what went on in my life here for the last 20 years um
21:36
and The Institute was helpful in seeing at a knowing basis not just
21:42
belief that every drop of experiences treasured and all death leads to light
21:48
and there’s not any judgment as in traditional uh religious kinds of um
21:54
models but when you die there is more triage about what you need to grow grow and learn and heal depending on your
22:01
life circumstances um so the Institute got to be very
22:07
um woven into my life after my brother’s death but I think it was already already
22:15
the best thing going on in my life if you will in terms of excitement and and new information and growth and in fact I
22:23
even had shared some of that with my brother Pete uh and advocated that he go for a program but he didn’t feel um that
22:31
he could alleviate his depression enough to be able to go and use it constructively but my uh thrill about
22:38
Monroe was going on before before he died so I I want to ask you what was it
22:45
like when you first what did what when you first made a connection with Peter after he had left his physical body when
22:53
you were able to reconnect um
22:59
after his death because suicide often does this I and much the family was very
23:06
fried we were just you know too jazzed up to connect much I used the Monroe
23:12
Institute meditation exercises and was able to calm down and feel kind of an
23:17
Angelic consolation but not not his presence particularly um as a few weeks went by
23:25
and I had more of a sense of his presence the first thing that came and
23:30
I’m not a very visual person I’m more of a knower in meditation uh was a visual sign of a
23:37
street sign that had a gavel like a judge’s gavel with a line through it
23:43
with the thought no judgment and how relieved he was that he wasn’t judged as
23:48
and gone to hell like he would have perhaps expected through religious training he was hoping for a drop of
23:56
God’s kindness if you will and forgiveness and um so he was very thrilled there to
24:02
find such a compassion there um then um he would often show up for me
24:10
in in ways that had humor or uh something that he enjoyed like um he was
24:18
a fancy dresser and uh I’m not known for that um and I was going to be on
24:24
television for the first time about a year after he died and I was in my closet picking out the right tie and
24:31
jacket and I I felt his presence come in really strong and to pick out this tie I
24:36
was on the floor one time on sunlet lit floor on a Persian rug and I was
24:41
teaching my about six-year-old daughter how to play poker with using pennies and
24:46
uh she won like the first 10 hands in a row and I got very serious and said to
24:52
her honey this isn’t how it’s supposed to go and then I felt my brother Pete there very strongly laughing and and uh
24:59
so he would appear in those kind of ways in in meditation he really didn’t want
25:04
to put on the cloak of this lifetime personality this body and and so I had
25:11
better luck when I would view him in some Essence quality like his sense of
25:16
humor and compassion and seeing him as a um a being with nobody you know more as
25:23
Spirit pure spirit and then he was willing to engage and interact
25:28
uh and we’d have um more communication most of it was just love streaming back
25:34
and forth um there was a Channeler I think is best in the world who also was
25:42
talking to Pete for me at that time if you will and she would um would describe
25:49
for me some of the uh appreciation he had for all that I I had done for him to
25:55
try to keep him going in this life um and uh a wistfulness over there knowing
26:02
what he knew now that he probably could have uh made different decisions both in
26:08
life and and to die um at that time so there was that type of
26:14
communication um and then as time went on a little bit more I got some more of
26:21
that type of communication where the uh Channeler was having where it be more
26:27
like a conversation you know I might be walking in the woods and feel his presence and and we’d have
26:33
a little bit of a how’s it going brother kind of conversation both
26:38
ways um when you were in addition to being able to reestablish the your that
26:45
relationship did you do things like U the spoon bending that they I know they
26:50
have a course for it I think it’s MC squared at Monroe did you did you also do
26:56
that um initially in my life designed I’m sorry
27:01
you designed mque s yeah mostly in my life it was uh telepathic type of in
27:08
communication particularly with my mom out of body kinds of things the psychokinesis came when I was up at
27:15
Monroe um and um I had a sense somebody had a headache and if I touched them
27:21
their headache it go away I asked permission they said sure I touched them the headache went away that intrigued me
27:28
but it’s it’s fuzzy you don’t know if it would have gone away anyway or God did it or I did it or they did it and if it
27:34
didn’t go away maybe it’s not supposed to human beings are kind of messy in a research model but very quickly I had
27:42
help was helping Bob Monroe to design a program called lifespan 2000 at that
27:48
point and we had a gaming night uh to practice some of the mental tools we
27:54
were learning and within there I started a dice game uh just as something simple we could do
28:01
and I found I could roll what I wanted on the dice seven sevens in a row for example and that intrigued me um so I
28:08
went to Princeton University it’s Princeton engineering
28:16
anomaly P I always want to get the middle mixed up P lab and I could see
28:24
that um I could do psychokinesis at a very strong rate and so I knew it was real and I could do
28:30
it that got me excited and I moved to going to Vegas to do uh to learn because
28:37
the dice and the um slot machines there are very well regulated there can’t be
28:42
any cheating what was it like when you first let’s say bent the spoon or or did
28:47
you was it just did it feel like oh of course or did you have a little thrill
28:53
what did you feel um well again the dice were the first thing that I was was really surprised about and within that I
29:01
could see through physical matter I could hear Angelic choirs I was rolling dice in patterns like the last Workshop
29:08
we did 48 numbers in a row with no seven seven should come up once in every six rolls by satistics so we uh that was the
29:16
first dramatic stuff and I’d leave flying very high i’ go to a slot machine and said like a royal flesh and hearts
29:24
which is 160,000 did it in the first po that kind of stuff so when spoon bending
29:31
came along I wasn’t having any luck and I thought it was probably crap pardon my French uh could be slight of hand
29:38
magician could be fake yeah there’s a trusted very much in their integrity
29:44
said no Joe it’s real and I wasn’t having any luck until somebody who was good at it put their hand behind my back
29:51
kind of on back of my heart chakra while I was holding the metal and it was a real heavy night of stainless steel wear
29:59
uh and it just became like rubber and melted and so I went w that’s pretty
30:04
cool and once I could see it could be done then I did uh was able to do it
30:09
more and I did develop the MC squar program in Monroe where we do dice rolling and Growing Seeds we’ve had inch
30:17
and a half root growth in 10 minutes in our hands uh with seeds um the metal
30:24
bending even fireplace pokers you know the big heavy metal got pictures of that um have a picture
30:32
of somebody bending a a wooden pencil into a pretzel shape um weird stuff and
30:40
um studying it there’s physicists that look at this the metal looks different
30:45
on a under electron microscope than if you bent it by force uh with a machine
30:50
or something so it can be faked but uh if if it’s metal that you bought
30:57
yourself and it’s really heavy and you’re holding it and you feel it change in your hand then it becomes a knowing
31:03
for you that it’s not fake U so it’s a great training device much like the dice throwing is that this stuff is real and
31:11
and within human capacity and for me uh the energy is the same as used in
31:19
energy healing like to heal a physical body as well as in manifesting what we’d like in life so that’s what I’ve been
31:26
studying the last 20 plus years the U exercise you referenced called liquid
31:32
luck is my opper my trying to take 30 years of this kind of stuff and reduce
31:38
it to 30 minutes to give people a taste and so when they buy that sometimes they
31:43
uh um have w win Lotto tickets and things like that and and get their own
31:50
quote proof something’s going on um so it’s been a focus of mine
31:58
that I liked because the psychokinesis with dice with um slot machines to some
32:05
extent metal bending and that kind of thing can be studied in a laboratory and and you can get statistics there that at
32:12
this point if you summarize all the statistics it’s what we call a seven Sigma event about a trillion to one by
32:19
chance uh that this would only occur by chance and uh so it’s more likely that
32:26
something really is valid here that that these are human capabilities but Alina the
32:33
um the thing to me is it’s very natural but that doesn’t mean easy um sleep is
32:39
natural and if I got tired tonight I go oh I’m getting tired I think I go to
32:45
sleep I yawn a couple times and I lay down and I forget the intention to go to sleep I might think of what I’m going to
32:51
do the next day or something and we fall asleep but if I said to somebody okay
32:57
you know you fall sleep pretty well most of the time yeah okay I’m going to put you on TV I’ll give you a million
33:03
dollars if you fall asleep in the next half hour nobody could do it with an audience watching or most people
33:10
couldn’t because now you’re self-conscious you’re trying too hard you know and the same thing happens with
33:15
metal bending you know if it’s not happening usually the person is trying too hard um and so when we teach metal
33:24
bending it’s really teaching to get out out of fear to build high energy to
33:31
focus it through your heart uh to have a Clarity of intention uh
33:38
versus this is how you make a d di or dice land in a certain pattern or this
33:44
is the way you make seeds grow in your hand we ego doesn’t know how to do it
33:50
and it doesn’t know how to bend metal but if you can get ego out of the way
33:55
then things happen yeah I I mean I did want to ask about the spoon bending because I know that
34:02
the Monroe Institute I think still does a Course once a month in it I don’t know if it’s virtual or but I I saw it on the
34:08
website yeah they do they have a couple hourong around once a month virtual this
34:14
is how you bend metal uh the MC squar program has been going 20 years uh we go
34:21
in a lot more depth about um what you need to do to be able to manifest and
34:27
use this energy for healing as well as metal bending yes so it is being taught this Moon bending by itself in just a
34:33
couple hours um as gives a taste and then MC squared you go into great depth
34:40
and then I have a home study version called syn creation that engages in the metal bending and the seed growing and
34:47
all that with coaching with me so there’s an option to get it various different ways depending how deep you
34:54
want to go but the um the spoon bending and
35:00
the and the luck at the casino and Growing Seeds that’s almost it’s almost
35:06
incidental to where you’re trying to get people to go though isn’t it it’s it’s it’s more the experience of and you can
35:13
fill in the blank I would say you know trying to open your heart open your field you tell
35:18
me yeah uh bottom line I think these are all different excuses to love each other
35:25
in different ways okay and love yourself um within that
35:32
um and I’m going to explain that a little bit more most of the things you see out
35:38
there are affecting matter with your mind and and visualization for manifesting and and even in the
35:45
psychokinesis like the metal bending I don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the mind is the
35:52
steering wheel of a car it just sets direction of intention the car goes nowhere without about
35:58
gas the best gas we found for this and for life is unconditional love so having
36:04
that flowing plus intention is when you get these quote Miracle results uh and
36:10
that’s where where I’m trying to go is to use these as feedback devices because in life if somebody
36:17
thought Negative they could think negatively for six weeks before they got a cold or some reflection of that
36:24
negativity if they wanted a soulmate they could pray for the soulmate and
36:29
visualize for a year and it may take even longer than that for that to come in for everything to arrange in perfect
36:37
ESS for the universe to have that happen so you could get discouraged and when
36:43
we’re at the dice table within seconds we get rewarded for being in unconditional love connected to Spirit
36:50
grounded to the Earth Here and Now in the present moment rather than worried about past or future and if we go into
36:57
greed and ego we get punished by withdrawal of money within seconds a very quick training to a more
37:04
enlightened way of living I thought you were gonna tell me you get punished by the casino staff who’s like what are you
37:09
people doing at our dice table no no they they uh they they they watch us and
37:15
they filmed us and whatever but they’re not too worried about us because we’re not trying to make a killing we’re
37:20
betting small amounts and uh say you were you’re in a bed medal today uh
37:28
and the person first tries by gee I’m afraid I won’t be able to do it so fear
37:35
is in the way it’s not going to happen then underneath that is I’m afraid I will be able to do it and if I do it it
37:41
changes my whole concept of reality and all my other beliefs and my sense of power and responsibility in my own life
37:48
and how the universe works so there’s a little bit of fear there too so there’s
37:53
a fear of not doing it or doing it and all that if we gentle that out um the
38:01
first thing people will usually try to do is great effort you know justy like trying to lift the foundation of a house
38:07
and it doesn’t work and so then they have to figure a way to project power without effort and uh people in sports
38:16
know how to do that you know flow States um people that are trained uh you know
38:23
there’s a 10,000 hour rule I don’t know if it’s really a rule but like the Beatles played in clubs around Europe
38:30
before they ever quote became famous by the time they became famous they were at ease with their instrument so um we’re
38:38
trying to teach the the instrument of the body if you will in the mind and the spirit so you know the notes enough well
38:46
enough that you can make music that you couldn’t make before if you will in this case it’s metal bending in another case
38:53
it might be um healing a scratch that you know your cat scratch on your your arm within 5 minutes whatever it might
39:00
be it’s an application of uh Power that we’re not taught in grade school or high
39:07
school or college but is a natural part of our abilities in my opinion does that
39:12
make sense it does it does and I I did want to I I almost feel this is evil
39:18
when you read parts of people’s books back to them sometimes but I’m going to do that okay so um you had said in Vegas
39:26
now this is one of your books in addition to liquid luck that is kind of similar um inner Vegas shows you how to
39:32
apply the energy of the heart to create health and good fortune and how to tame the dragons you may encounter along the
39:39
way I want to talk about the dragons sure so so I’m using the word Dragon for
39:47
fear to me love has no opposite we’ve been talking about love being the energy
39:52
so hate is not the opposite but fear can Cloud love um
39:58
very very cloudy if you will and fear used broadly that would name could be
40:03
cynicism boredom confusion anger like if somebody cuts you off in traffic you
40:09
know the first reaction you’re aware of is anger maybe but right before that was fear that you’re going to be hurt or
40:15
your car was going to be dented so we’re using fear very broadly okay
40:21
um and uh that’s the main challenge is to kind of reduce the
40:27
fear uh and it doesn’t work like some systems try to kill ego you can’t kill
40:34
ego but you can soften it and with that it tends to soften the fears one of the
40:40
big ways like in liquid luck that meditation we mentioned we move into things like happiness gratitude feelings
40:48
of abundance that tends heart gets us out of ego and then we think of things
40:55
where we feel compassion and begin to feel fortunate and then with all of that you might have better
41:01
luck with the lottery ticket so it’s uh it’s a lot of working with reducing fear
41:08
does that help yes question it does I mean I no it’s a diff that’s I think
41:14
this is the most difficult part of the whole process of and also just of being you know when we’re talking about being
41:19
in Carnet um and I know that there are certain schools that just try to replace
41:26
the dragon with gra attitude if you just focus on gratitude which works to some extent um the other thing I did want to
41:33
ask about though is where self-esteem fits into this equation or
41:38
okay or self okay so I’m gonna go back a little bit on the dragons I first when I
41:43
went to Vegas I would find I’m afraid of doing too well and the casino will ban me I’m afraid of not doing well and
41:49
losing my money those would be examples of dragons Okay um and meeting fear with
41:56
courage can work gratitude can work but I found it was easier to melt Fear With Love if I go into love uh which might be
42:04
thinking of my at this point my mom say when I’m at a slot machine or my brother’s people that are on the other
42:11
side I just uh think how much I love them and feel the flow of energy uh like
42:16
we’re in connection and spirit and then once a while say Okay M give me a jackpot or something and pull the handle
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or press the button nowadays and boom the jackpot so that’s what’s going on there esteem
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in general it’s self-concept I would say more than
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self-esteem um so when Ro Institute did an exercise a
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long time ago for to help with golf for people and people started they focused
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in the Imaging and the meditation to drive a long distance and people started driving incredibly but then 70
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putt they had seven putt a whole because their their impression was that they were an 80s golfer a ’90s golfer ’70s
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golfer so that was their self-concept and that’s what you hit um so as I
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started doing real well in Vegas for example the cruise would say Here Comes Mr Lucky and I would say I’m not lucky
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because in my family I was youngest of four boys my my folks had more money
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they were easier on me raising me than my brothers so my brothers would say he’s the lucky one and I say I’m not
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lucky so my self-concept is I earned everything by hard work it was not luck
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and so if you have a concept like that it’s hard for Fortune to bless you um
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yeah because you have to feel you could receive whether you’ve worked for it or not yeah and and say you did well and
43:49
and if but somebody said looked at you said oh you’re just lucky that would be you didn’t deserve it you didn’t put in
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all that effort so Concepts get to be very important there was a guy he wanted
44:02
a job I’m going to try to make this a quick story not have any luck and I said what do you really want and he said a
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job about two months a year in beautiful weather and we had him put that out of
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meditation and he got an advertising boat at the ocean in the Northeast shore
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of United States and uh pretty girl would drive the boat up and down the
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beach Co cola have one side local restaurant the other by the end of the year he had three boats on Alexus and
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this the season was two months long but for most people as soon as you say
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job only two months a year they laugh because for them 60 hours a week 50
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weeks a year equals job so that would be concept there I’ll give you another big
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concept many of the people come to Monro if I put said show of hands how many of you you are Seekers of wisdom Seekers of
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spiritual knowledge all the hands go up I say wouldn’t you rather be a finder
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it’s a different energy okay and and so we can have things that feel really good inside like
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I’m a Seeker I’m you know I’m on a righteous path yet that could get in the
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way of being a finder is that making sense yes it does yes it does so we deal
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with those kinds of things in the home study course in the MC squar program in the three-hour spoon bending Workshop
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they they try to transcend that quickly to get you all excited to show you yes you can do it same kind of the liquid
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luck meditation I do we try to transcend all the issues humans can have and just
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have such a vivid image of having this magic liquid you can drink and have luck
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that you can transcend all that fear and doubt and self-concept issues uh for
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temporarily enough to get a taste of what’s possible so that’s why we do
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that you also um think that that I don’t
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want to say these phenomena but these experiences should be measurable and repeatable they should be we should be
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able to have some harder what people would call harder s science what do you have any idea of like what would be the
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perfect like a really solid experiment like how would you design it how big
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would your group be what would you do
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um yeah I do I do like the idea that we can verify so because you can trick
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yourself you know uh in in ways uh so um
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one one that I like I just is coming to mind that’s quite elegant recently is in
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science we call it fourway double blind nobody knows who’s the experiment group
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and who’s the control group and within that we can take vials of liquid and put
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bacteria in the vial and and so in a vial you might have
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a 100 million bacteria in one vial all right think because bacteria are tiny
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and you can put an antibiotic in there that we know is proven to kill
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95% of the bacteria within 15 minutes let’s say all
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right and then we can have another vial that no knows which is which that energy
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healers have prayed over to protect the vial to protect those bacteria
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inside and then other people who are don’t know which is which will measure
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and in that vial that’s had the protection maybe 90% of the bacteria
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survive for 15 minutes instead of 90% are killed the reason why that’s elegant
47:51
is there’s no placebo effect there’s no people involved you know in powers of
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suggestion and there’s with metal bending for example it’s very messy you
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know the accusation can be I pre- soften the metal I’m using closeand magician
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work I’m you know super strong I went into some kind of hypnotic State like a
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woman lifting a car off a child as if that explains anything but you know
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they’ll come up with weird explanations that bacteria study I just mentioned is
48:25
is very repeated then somebody else can do it in their lab in another lab across the country um and so we look for things
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like that has it been done this experiment or is this something has it been done what you just described done
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and has been done successfully um the ones I’ve participated in they’ll put like 120
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lead EG on my head um so they’re measuring brain wave patterns and they
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will say affect this gray box that has sensors in it for 48 seconds and then
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let 48 seconds rest 48 seconds use the psychokinesis through 100 trials and
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those will come out significant statistically that that the box was different when you’re trying to affect
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it um and and you and in the MC squar program we mentioned we have over a
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decade of data showing groups do that and and accumulate data to statistical
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significance level and that’s a little nicer than just accepting somebody’s word for
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it it get spooky though because if the experiment believes it’s possible it’s more likely that it’ll be a positive
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result and if the experiment believes this can’t can’t possibly work it won’t
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most times so there are experiment effects even in the purest quote of
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science um that that we’re learning about you know in physics they talk
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about the observer effect yeah you also um had some overlap
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with the Department of perceptual studies at UVA yes they I know they do a
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lot of research what did you do with them so that one with 48 seconds on and off I just mentioned was at UVA
50:15
University of Virginia uh division of perceptual studies they’re the ones that
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have also come up to mroe Institute and gathered data for over a decade on the m
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C squ program they have a talented subjects area where they um will bring
50:32
people in who have a reputation of being great healers or what have you uh their
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one of their staff members is also a co-director of research at Monroe Institute and so they have like a copper
50:47
room it’s all copper with shielding and they can measure people’s electrical field and they’ll see higher fields on
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people who are able project energy well um and they coordinate with other
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organizations Ry Institute they used to be with North Carolina University it’s
51:07
separate now uh they have a room where it’s completely dark to the place where
51:13
you could count just a few photons in the room when nobody’s there when a human comes in there’s more photons and
51:20
with a Healer comes in and you say make the room light you know it explodes in light and in terms of what
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they can measure in terms of how many photons so we’re we’re trying to get some objective quod data rather than
51:35
just uh people’s feelings like gee I think I talked to Grandma last night or
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whatever that may well have great validity for the individual and it may be 100% true but it’s hard to replicate
51:48
in the lab yeah I know I have a lot of relatives my dad and my sister and just
51:55
tons of aunts and uncles who are deceased and I had had when my
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grandparents died I I had experiences but I had to say to myself I don’t know if this is real because I want it to be
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you know I want my heart’s desire and then I had a couple one of them was just a couple years ago where my aunt had
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died but I didn’t know it and I had a dream with my father and my sister and my uncle who had died just a month
52:23
before and they were with my aunt who was doing what she would do whenever she would come to our house she always came
52:29
with little goodie bags and things like that and you couldn’t do anything until you dealt with her like she couldn’t
52:35
settle until you took the oldtime magazines and the little casserole she made and in this dream she was doing
52:41
that and my Uncle George looked at me and she said ah she’s okay because she was just unpacking and I woke up in the morning and I said to my mom I said I
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think Aunt Mary’s gone because she was with all our dead relatives and we and we got the call a day and a half later
52:53
that was one of the few experiences that I could say that wasn’t just me because I wanted it that was something you might
53:01
have not wanted the exact you would have wanted the exact opposite yes and and there’s a part where we can lie to
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ourselves very easily when we when our emotions are in a certain place so yeah
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I think the research portion is so important I and just backing up I always think of um the department of perceptual
53:19
studies as doing near-death work that I’d love to talk to them about but that’s what I think of them doing I didn’t realize they they got going
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initially with three Incarnation work uh and have I think 4,000 at least
53:30
documented cases of reincarnation they they were formed by a grant to uh get
53:37
some of that going but they do have uh they broaden out into this area of
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studying energy healing and psychokinesis and and those kind of
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things um maybe not as much telepathy as Institute of noetic science does and
53:54
some other organizations but they they have Bren but you know even with your
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your aunt and many people have that experience they’ll you know even not in a dream they’re walking and all of a
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sudden they know a relative died Skeptics will say you psychically picked
54:11
up that their health was beginning to fail or whatever they will say oh you
54:17
just telepathically picked up something from somebody that knew she was dead
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that’s not much of a explanation because that involves
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psychic functioning as well but they will try their hardest to to not say uh
54:34
this is proof of physical death um or proof of communication uh through the
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veil um you know the interesting thing about Lifeline the program up in Monroe
54:45
it’s been going two decades now is we’ll get some things that are pretty darn
54:51
verifiable where the you know Aunt Melly will die or whatever and she’ll say you
54:56
know look onto the fourth floorboard in this house in the attic and there’s this box and inside the box is this letter
55:03
that explains something that I have to tell somebody and uh they’ll go and they’ll find the letter things that
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would be hard to make up yeah yeah okay Joe are you ready for the lightning
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round a final question I didn’t know there was going to be one I’m GNA take a sip of water before a lightning reset me
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too
55:27
okay okay um so first question is what do you feel what in your view is a
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well-lived life this body this Incarnation I like Emerson’s uh definition of leaving the
55:42
place a little better than when you came that’s lovely what do you suspect is the true
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nature of reality I think if you look at protons
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and neutrons elect and they break down into quirks and then they break down
55:59
best we know into information packets and um and all at the very base of all
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of that it looks like it’s Consciousness and I think Consciousness is love so I’d say the love is the ground of
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reality okay how do you feel people can better be engaged with their Consciousness or
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love we know a lot of people are just going to work to pay attention to things like the beauty of nature beauty of
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Music beauty of how people care for each other and not listen to Broadcast News
56:35
if you will and a lot of hype and stories that are fear generating and and
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that’s the external looking and inside I think meditation has a good place um as
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ability if the mind quiets that we begin to see we are more than our physical bodies our ego minds and what have you
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so you you have to almost or you’re invited to create a window into more of
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who you are before you have something like a heart attack that rearranges all your values or a near-death experience
57:09
or or who knows what um you can get to the kinds of wisdoms and insights people
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have under crisis like that through something like a good meditation regime
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and I will make a commercial meditation is not always la la feel good
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relax because as you get more sensitive to yourself you might realize you might need to go through a divorce or you
57:33
might need to change something ra radical in the marriage that you’re scared to bring up or you might need to
57:40
have a conversation with your boss or your child that you don’t want to have or that the job is no fun anymore you
57:48
know even though it has gold in their silver handcuffs to it in terms of what you get paid so meditation can bring up
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awareness of things that are not comfortable but if you make those changes most times people have an even
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Fuller life that was a long answer I’m sorry it has to be the secrets to life
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Joe they have to be piffy yeah be two words 42 or 43 what’s that yeah so when
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you die is there anything you hope to have
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answered or to to find out I’m actually hoping
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to get confirmation of feelings I’ve had before Life coming in when I’ve gotten
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in touch with that in meditation of deep deep knowing that all
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is in right order that at some level Beyond Good and Evil black and white
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wrong and right there’s a place where you know everything is praising everything so uh that’s where I will aim
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for because I I’ve had a taste of that and I think that is the actual that
59:01
reality is a little realer it’s paradoxical there’s a book from middle Egyptian times called the
59:09
cabilan and and the first truth is everything is a dream second is everything is real third is biggest
59:15
mistake you can make is deciding one of those statements is truer than the other so there’s a paradoxical nature so you
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can’t say you know that the pain and suffering here are not real but my
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brother’s feeling and many people when I talk to them on the other side is lives here are like a blink of an eye over
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there and so they say don’t sweat the small stuff so much they know that while you’re living it it can seem agonizingly
59:42
slow if you’re in the middle of a of a dental filling and the novocaine hasn’t
59:48
taken effect but from over their perspective even 20 years of depression
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or whatever is like a blink of the eye so um I I hope to find
1:00:01
um I know love is real and I hope to just find that I can embibe in it um
1:00:09
well once I’m I have dropped the physical and I and I think that’ll be the
1:00:17
case okay and this is a haale little question compared to that one but where
1:00:23
but it’s important where can people find you and the good that you’re doing I
1:00:28
have a website believe it or not I’m the only person in the world to have discovered that uh and it’s www dot and
1:00:37
then the word sync Sy YN C like synchronize Sy YN C and then the word
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creation c a t o n so s y NC c a t
1:00:49
n.com and um there there’s a lot of free articles about energy healing
1:00:55
psychokinesis is the things we’re talking about and then um a lot of individual meditations on download as
1:01:02
well as that home study course um if person Googles if it’s easier to
1:01:08
remember liquid luck that’s one probably my most uh bestselling book in
1:01:15
meditation so uh if you Google liquid luck you’ll find me as well okay and any
1:01:22
last messages for the audience today um I think I’m going to end with one of
1:01:28
my favorite sayings um and I even have it on the wall I can look at and that is fear is
1:01:36
expensive love is priceless Choose Wisely so thank you fear is expensive
1:01:42
and we’re we’re coming on an election we’re coming on issues of climate and whatever that people have very different
1:01:49
points of view on it but it can generate a lot of fear and if we make decisions
1:01:54
out of fear um they’re not going to be as high quality as if we make them out of love
1:02:00
so um I I’ll stick with that as my last words that’s beautiful that’s lovely oh
1:02:07
thank you thank you so much for being with me today sure bye bye bye
1:02:12
bye thanks for watching click to join us on another journey and don’t forget to
1:02:17
subscribe [Music]
On today’s show, the Journeying Soul welcomes a man with a lovely heart: Dr. Joseph Gallenberger. Joe is a clinical psychologist who has created courses and taught for decades at the Monroe Institute, famous for the U.S. government’s secret Stargate program and for identifying the ability of binaural beats to induce altered states of consciousness.
We discuss Joe’s experiences with after death communication, out of body experience, and manifestation. We also discuss how people can approach learning psychokinesis and expanding their own abilities with ADC, OOB, and manifestation.
Where to Find Our Guest
📚Books by Joe Gallenberger
Liquid Luck: The Good Fortune Handbook
Sip and Support the Journeying Soul. Get the Emerson Paraphrase mug inspired by Joe’s answer to our lightning round questions.
Dr. Joe Gallenberger is a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience as a therapist and a great interest in the universal principles of manifestation. In 1995, he began exploring psychokinesis, the ability to influence matter through non-physical means. He has achieved statistically powerful results in university laboratories and, after advancing his methods over years of study, began to teach this skill to groups that share his passion and interest in the fundamentals of manifestation.
Dr. Gallenberger offers a variety of programs designed to expand consciousness through delight. His SyncCreation® home study course, and ninety-nine Inner Vegas Adventure Workshops™ have taken participants into fascinating states of power and intuition. His students achieve strong altered states of consciousness and energy, resulting in dramatic physical and psychological healing, strong influence over dice and slot machines, and many beautiful manifestations in participant’s lives at home.
Joe is also a long-time meditator and a trainer for 30 years at the world-famous Monroe Institute®, which teaches expanded human consciousness to an international clientele. Robert Monroe, whom Joe knew personally, founded the Institute and was a pioneer in consciousness exploration. Joe trains a spectrum of Monroe courses and he developed the Institute’s highly successful MC² (Manifestation and Creation Squared) program.
Joe also offers meditation exercises on CD and Download including: Manifesting with Hemi-Sync®, Partners Meditation, Liquid Luck, Abundance Waterfall, The Healing Heart, The Abundant Heart, The Ocean Heart, and The Forgiving Heart.
0:00
most of the things you see out there are affecting matter with your mind and Ma and visualization from manifesting and I
0:08
don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the Mind as a steering wheel of a car it just sets
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direction of intention the car goes nowhere without gas the best gas we found for this and
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for life is unconditional love so having that flowing plus intention is when you
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get these quote Miracle results
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[Music]
0:44
I’d like to welcome to the journeying soul Dr Joseph gallenberger how are you doing today Joe
0:50
hello thank you so much for coming on the show yeah my sounding okay to you
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sometimes uh when I go on Zoom I sound like a mouse until I go on twice you’re good you’re good let us begin so you are
1:04
a clinical psychologist by trade but have been since in the Monroe Institute
1:09
since the early 90s did you know Bob Monroe yes I uh you know I did not know
1:16
him well like a best friend but working up there um for about 10 weeks a year
1:24
for the last 30 years uh in the early part of that while he was living uh we’d
1:30
have occasion to sit on a hill together and look at the birds uh flying in The Thermals and him talking about new ideas
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for new things uh in his uh meditations um how life was going for
1:44
him those kind of things and also a little bit what was going in on in my life so I also got to see him talk in
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front of many many groups and U he was a great uh presenter if you will and would
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hold the audience and wrapped attention for hours as he talked you knew him towards the end of his life I guess that
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overlap what else was he looking to do it’s actually consistent with what he wanted to do let me give you the
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evolution initially he wanted to run 5,000 people through using brain wave
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patterning exercises on on headphones using sound to see if he could duplicate
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what he called his Auto Body Experience um because he thought that 5,000 people would be a good research
2:32
base for that uh and uh quickly it broadened into as he began programs in
2:39
this uh people discovering all kinds of things contacts with guides visiting
2:45
loved ones who had passed many different things that he may not have been expecting in the beginning so by the end
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of his life his feeling was more um that
2:58
his work could help the world reduced its level of fear
3:04
because it would lose its fear of death for one and that was behind a lot of our
3:10
our problems is survival orienting we you know do a lot of things to try to uh
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survival of the fittest if you will so by gentling that out and seeing that we survive physical death in some form he
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felt that many of the world’s problems would be able to shift and and be eased
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so his goal which he passed on uh to the people who now are in charge was that he
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thought if they could they’ve concretized this into if they can get 1%
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of the world to experience uh some alteration and conscious awareness either through
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Monroe Institute technique or other meditation techniques that they think
3:54
that that will be very transformative so the Monroe institute’s goal at this point is to reach 8 million people I
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think by maybe 2030 I’m not sure on the date but uh so
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they’ve expanded into having a free app you can get on the phone with meditations there’s a paid subscription
4:16
to that that goes even deeper when M Bob was in live he was
4:22
doing mainly weeklong workshops intensive residential that took quite a bit of commitment of time and money
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now they’ve broadened into uh 2hour workshops three-hour workshops half day
4:36
full day 3- day one long week but virtual that started with covid and and
4:42
also the residential so they’re trying to create a larger funnel where people can come in at whatever level they might
4:49
be interested in if that was just to learn Technologies to relax and sleep
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better to um to work with energy healing
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contac and guidance better higher creativity that there’d be something at the institute for them that would gently
5:07
push them more to understand uh that they’re more than their physical body
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their personality their gender role uh their job at work and that we might be
5:18
Spiritual Beings having a physical experience if you will um so that’s what’s uh going on at the Institute
5:25
since he died how did how did your family feel you’re you got a degree in
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Psychology you’re a clinical psychologist you’re you’re a doctor in the family how did they feel when you
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went to Monroe did they have an opinion about it one way or the
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other um I would say it would be variable though all my family ethos was
5:49
to respect each person’s Journey so um I was thinking of becoming a monk when I
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was 12 13 years old I applied and went to uh a monastery and my parents
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reaction to that was whatever you decide you know if it’s genuine and you’re an
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Integrity um you know we applaud your your path in life whatever that might be
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most of my family was very business-oriented uh presidents and vice presidents of very large companies and
6:20
things and so being a doctor was a Divergence from that um by itself uh
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then in in terms of being caregiving which I saw you know the doctor role as um a legitimate one um I presented this
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which was true the mro was giving me a technology through these meditations on
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headphones where I could handle people’s anxiety depression issues and what have you much much more rapidly and
6:52
effectively than some of the talk therapy or in combination with that
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things went better so they were fine with that as you get into the out of- body parts uh and contacting people who
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passed to the other side then my family would diverge uh a bit there um my my mother
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and and a few brothers were highly interested and my father and and some
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other siblings would been a little more conservative on that word but they still didn’t they were interested in listening
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uh but they wouldn’t have any inclination to try that themselves the folks that weren’t if you
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will but since you had the desire to become a monk they it was sort of in your wheelhouse I guess but also more
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importantly you you probably knew how to meditate before you got to you know you started to work at the
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Monroe Institute I would think I I was more in the um the monk area was
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Catholic and they teach uh various forms of prayer so supplicative prayer which
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would be Lord would you buy me a mercedesbenz to um to uh intercessory
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prayer help someone else to U praising to contemplation and I was aware of
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those kinds of things um the monastery was in basically mostly silence all you
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know except for classes at that time so there was um a lot of that background
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but I didn’t have any formal like TM training or making your mind blank kind of meditation type of training and in
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fact Monroe doesn’t really strive to do that they have a uh about a 10-minute
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beginning to most meditations that is designed to quiet ego and open the heart and after that
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when something comes up they engage with it as either something to look at or a
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message versus thinking that would be a distraction like you might in some other meditative
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systems um but yeah I had some um how did how was it for you um when you first
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some familiarity U with the idea of looking inside and uh and
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um finding that of benefit so self-reflective I guess you’d
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say um how did how was it for you um when you first
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started meditating let’s say through with the Monroe techniques as opposed to
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what you had done did did somebody teach you this or is it just purely here’s the
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headphones uh frankly I got a bootlegged copy of an old cassette from a rebel
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yeah one of his m5000 program which has gone into a be as the Monroe institute’s
9:52
Gateway program now and um the person said sh don’t tell anybody and you know
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but listen to this it blew me away it it empowered meditation so beautifully that
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within minutes you are deeply deeply relaxed maybe more so than ever in your life and then beginning to connect with
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u uh higher energies creativity six senses six sense uh things beyond your
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five physical senses um so that was an introduction
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but I pretty rapidly went up to Monroe Institute and in the Gateway found it one of the most profound weeks of my
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life in terms of uh opening my eyes to what is possible um in terms of our
10:40
connection to Spirit while we’re still in body if you will what was it like the first time you
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walked into the Institute did you feel like you’d found your people yeah I uh I was buzzing before I
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even got there I was excited um a friend of mine came uh that
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I hadn’t seen in years unexpectedly the night I was going to drive up to Virginia from North Carolina and we
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stayed up till midnight talking so I left in the middle of the night and uh about 3:00 a.m. I stopped I was tired
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someplace in rural Virginia and it was very humid I went in got a hotel room
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laid down couldn’t sleep I was too excited got back up and said Gee I wish I hadn’t had to pay for this room I only
11:25
was in it 20 minutes but I went to the desk to pay the the guy and I paid him and it was about 20 bucks that’s how
11:32
long ago it was and when I walked out of the door there was a freshly folded $20
11:38
bill completely dry on the step and uh Miracle things like that happened all
11:44
all the way up to the Institute um when I got there it felt like home um it was
11:51
so good to talk to people about things that I thought uh were quite weird and maybe other people hadn’t experience and
11:58
it The Institute is great because it has no Dogma so it attracts atheists and Buddhists and fundamentalist ministers
12:05
Republicans and Democrats and and they everybody respects each other while they’re there and gets along well um so
12:14
it did feel like Community um and the meditations were very deep I had some
12:21
out of body experiences which I had had spontaneous in my life but this was more
12:27
controlled uh but also you know feelings of connection with spirit
12:33
that years of prayer had not really uh taken me as deeply as within that week
12:39
um so I was real impressed I wanted to go back which I did pretty quickly after two or three times I said this is
12:45
getting expensive and decided I’d like to be a trainer this is 33 years ago
12:51
maybe uh and it got accepted uh they have a very strong Apprentice program to be a trainer you got to go through quite
12:58
a few steps and um I did that and so I’ve been training there I think 30 plus years um
13:07
as a result and one of the big things I’d been to other workshops where there was kind of a guru feeling and you had
13:13
to wear an orange robe or believe something to be accepted and this had
13:19
none of that and that appealed to me as well as a scientific basis they were using 128 lead EGS measuring brain wave
13:28
patterns being able to put things on paper uh to prove that this wasn’t just
13:34
all wishful thinking so I was really impressed at the research base of the Institute as
13:40
well you were there I think you were there had gotten there right before
13:46
there was um an article in the Wall Street Journal I guess the front page story that sort of outed I guess the I
13:54
don’t know if it outed the army or if it out or the government or if it outed the Monroe Institute but the story broke
14:01
that the government was had partnered with the Monroe Institute what was the
14:06
vibe in The Institute when that story came out okay well some of these things now
14:12
are being combined that I don’t think go together but there was a New York Times article and it resulted in a lot of
14:20
people wanting to come and then wanting Stak and fil in yond okay and and when
14:27
there would be an article at that same time there was one in Mother Earth News and all those people came and wanted
14:33
vegetarian fair and you know very different audiences uh from different
14:38
articles as well as Bob’s original books and so um the kitchen was having fits
14:44
trying to figure out which kind of meals to serve as the audiences would change
14:50
um the military things were kept quite uh they weren’t trying to be kept secret
14:57
but they were uh as everybody’s uh who goes there their privacy was respected
15:04
so if you have an army general or you had a rock star or you had a Hollywood
15:09
bigname Hollywood person there that would not be disclosed right that would be you still had almost you almost had
15:16
like the you know your background like a psychologist sense of privacy that people are coming here to kind of work
15:22
because we knew we we knew you know with the right to privacy somebody would get fired from their job even if their
15:28
employer found out they were engaged in something quotes weird so that’s going
15:34
on now there was an article that came out about the Gateway program this Premier program uh where the CIA and
15:43
other government organizations were researching remote viewing the ability to sense things without regard to time
15:51
or distance and whether the Gateway program could help them increase
15:56
accuracy reduce burnout uh increase the quickness in which
16:02
somebody could get into the meditative state to do this kind of uh psychic work
16:07
and that article then recently has hit the the news uh with a missing page
16:15
which was actually just a page that was forgotten to be xeroxed um copied when they did it but
16:22
it it caught the attention of a lot of uh influencers currently on on the web
16:29
and so there’s been quite a surge in the last year about that article from the
16:34
CIA um because frankly a lot of people didn’t even know the Institute existed so it brought into mind um uh that a
16:44
little more and uh and that group are you know everybody that comes is curious
16:50
The Wall Street Journal people were curious in one way or another some of them like this information to be able to
16:57
perhaps to handle ego better when they would make trading in the markets and maybe even
17:04
increase their intuition those kind of things um the uh Mother Earth News
17:10
article might have accented something very different such as out of body and
17:16
so you get people with a variety interest coming there so what so it seemed to me in just
17:23
looking at the Timeline that that article coming out led to or influenced the the
17:29
government wrapping up some work with with on on I guess it was um with the
17:36
Monroe Institute um and and or pulling funding what what followed What did the
17:43
and I don’t know if you can say did the work really keep going on under another name or was it something that the
17:49
Institute had to adjust to am I right about that I am not privy
17:57
to the deepest layers of finances with all of this okay from from the layer of
18:03
which I was operating getting paid to be a consultant trainer you know they’re not we’re not employees they they hire
18:11
people to come in from four to 10 weeks a year um and looking at how things are
18:18
renovated buildings being built or whatever it would be it seemed like um
18:23
there was not a huge change depending on what the military was doing I I think
18:29
that was a fair Fairly aside um interest in the main thrust of
18:34
The Institute it was siloed off were coming you know to explore things but
18:40
Joe MCM monacle is I I feel one of the world’s best remote viewers he was a
18:45
remote viewer 001 in the government program that went for 20 years he ended up marrying one of
18:53
Bob’s uh children he lives up there he still talks in many of the programs
18:59
there about remote viewing and has his own remote viewing program there that has been there for at least the last 20
19:06
years so that continuity is continued um
19:11
and uh you’re right in terms of the the
19:16
formal remote viewing program under the name Stargate and Grill flame and
19:22
several other government names as best we know officially ended um there’s
19:29
still quite a bit of government interacting with remote viewers of that
19:34
level quality to find lost children to solve crime to find Temple sites in
19:40
Japan to uh do many things and and I would not be surprised if sometimes they
19:47
are um queried about significant military concerns but again that would
19:55
not be something I would be privy to nor the general public that would usually
20:00
happen at higher levels of security clearance that than I would have that’s for
20:06
sure switching to the personal so your brother Peter um committed suicide about
20:13
two years before you you know started at Monroe was that it doesn’t sound from
20:20
what you said previously that that was any that was a motivating factor for joining Monroe but it sounds a little bit like it was Kismet that it put you
20:27
there um yes so just to correct timeline a little bit um I had already gone to
20:35
Monroe for a few years before becoming a trainer so I was um had taken their
20:41
Gateway program and their second program called guidelines and a third program which is a brand new program called
20:48
Lifeline which involved helping people on the other side and transitioning from
20:53
Death uh I was in the first program as a participant and my brother committed
20:58
suicide or committing suicide is not what we say anymore um trying he died by
21:04
Suicide um about a week after that first program um and um it was helpful to me
21:13
to have the Monroe group uh hone in on him on the other side and helpful to me
21:20
in terms of my communication with him so I wrote a book brothers forever and a followup 20 years later called Heaven is
21:26
for healing about what’s G on on the other side for him and what went on in my life here for the last 20 years um
21:36
and The Institute was helpful in seeing at a knowing basis not just
21:42
belief that every drop of experiences treasured and all death leads to light
21:48
and there’s not any judgment as in traditional uh religious kinds of um
21:54
models but when you die there is more triage about what you need to grow grow and learn and heal depending on your
22:01
life circumstances um so the Institute got to be very
22:07
um woven into my life after my brother’s death but I think it was already already
22:15
the best thing going on in my life if you will in terms of excitement and and new information and growth and in fact I
22:23
even had shared some of that with my brother Pete uh and advocated that he go for a program but he didn’t feel um that
22:31
he could alleviate his depression enough to be able to go and use it constructively but my uh thrill about
22:38
Monroe was going on before before he died so I I want to ask you what was it
22:45
like when you first what did what when you first made a connection with Peter after he had left his physical body when
22:53
you were able to reconnect um
22:59
after his death because suicide often does this I and much the family was very
23:06
fried we were just you know too jazzed up to connect much I used the Monroe
23:12
Institute meditation exercises and was able to calm down and feel kind of an
23:17
Angelic consolation but not not his presence particularly um as a few weeks went by
23:25
and I had more of a sense of his presence the first thing that came and
23:30
I’m not a very visual person I’m more of a knower in meditation uh was a visual sign of a
23:37
street sign that had a gavel like a judge’s gavel with a line through it
23:43
with the thought no judgment and how relieved he was that he wasn’t judged as
23:48
and gone to hell like he would have perhaps expected through religious training he was hoping for a drop of
23:56
God’s kindness if you will and forgiveness and um so he was very thrilled there to
24:02
find such a compassion there um then um he would often show up for me
24:10
in in ways that had humor or uh something that he enjoyed like um he was
24:18
a fancy dresser and uh I’m not known for that um and I was going to be on
24:24
television for the first time about a year after he died and I was in my closet picking out the right tie and
24:31
jacket and I I felt his presence come in really strong and to pick out this tie I
24:36
was on the floor one time on sunlet lit floor on a Persian rug and I was
24:41
teaching my about six-year-old daughter how to play poker with using pennies and
24:46
uh she won like the first 10 hands in a row and I got very serious and said to
24:52
her honey this isn’t how it’s supposed to go and then I felt my brother Pete there very strongly laughing and and uh
24:59
so he would appear in those kind of ways in in meditation he really didn’t want
25:04
to put on the cloak of this lifetime personality this body and and so I had
25:11
better luck when I would view him in some Essence quality like his sense of
25:16
humor and compassion and seeing him as a um a being with nobody you know more as
25:23
Spirit pure spirit and then he was willing to engage and interact
25:28
uh and we’d have um more communication most of it was just love streaming back
25:34
and forth um there was a Channeler I think is best in the world who also was
25:42
talking to Pete for me at that time if you will and she would um would describe
25:49
for me some of the uh appreciation he had for all that I I had done for him to
25:55
try to keep him going in this life um and uh a wistfulness over there knowing
26:02
what he knew now that he probably could have uh made different decisions both in
26:08
life and and to die um at that time so there was that type of
26:14
communication um and then as time went on a little bit more I got some more of
26:21
that type of communication where the uh Channeler was having where it be more
26:27
like a conversation you know I might be walking in the woods and feel his presence and and we’d have
26:33
a little bit of a how’s it going brother kind of conversation both
26:38
ways um when you were in addition to being able to reestablish the your that
26:45
relationship did you do things like U the spoon bending that they I know they
26:50
have a course for it I think it’s MC squared at Monroe did you did you also do
26:56
that um initially in my life designed I’m sorry
27:01
you designed mque s yeah mostly in my life it was uh telepathic type of in
27:08
communication particularly with my mom out of body kinds of things the psychokinesis came when I was up at
27:15
Monroe um and um I had a sense somebody had a headache and if I touched them
27:21
their headache it go away I asked permission they said sure I touched them the headache went away that intrigued me
27:28
but it’s it’s fuzzy you don’t know if it would have gone away anyway or God did it or I did it or they did it and if it
27:34
didn’t go away maybe it’s not supposed to human beings are kind of messy in a research model but very quickly I had
27:42
help was helping Bob Monroe to design a program called lifespan 2000 at that
27:48
point and we had a gaming night uh to practice some of the mental tools we
27:54
were learning and within there I started a dice game uh just as something simple we could do
28:01
and I found I could roll what I wanted on the dice seven sevens in a row for example and that intrigued me um so I
28:08
went to Princeton University it’s Princeton engineering
28:16
anomaly P I always want to get the middle mixed up P lab and I could see
28:24
that um I could do psychokinesis at a very strong rate and so I knew it was real and I could do
28:30
it that got me excited and I moved to going to Vegas to do uh to learn because
28:37
the dice and the um slot machines there are very well regulated there can’t be
28:42
any cheating what was it like when you first let’s say bent the spoon or or did
28:47
you was it just did it feel like oh of course or did you have a little thrill
28:53
what did you feel um well again the dice were the first thing that I was was really surprised about and within that I
29:01
could see through physical matter I could hear Angelic choirs I was rolling dice in patterns like the last Workshop
29:08
we did 48 numbers in a row with no seven seven should come up once in every six rolls by satistics so we uh that was the
29:16
first dramatic stuff and I’d leave flying very high i’ go to a slot machine and said like a royal flesh and hearts
29:24
which is 160,000 did it in the first po that kind of stuff so when spoon bending
29:31
came along I wasn’t having any luck and I thought it was probably crap pardon my French uh could be slight of hand
29:38
magician could be fake yeah there’s a trusted very much in their integrity
29:44
said no Joe it’s real and I wasn’t having any luck until somebody who was good at it put their hand behind my back
29:51
kind of on back of my heart chakra while I was holding the metal and it was a real heavy night of stainless steel wear
29:59
uh and it just became like rubber and melted and so I went w that’s pretty
30:04
cool and once I could see it could be done then I did uh was able to do it
30:09
more and I did develop the MC squar program in Monroe where we do dice rolling and Growing Seeds we’ve had inch
30:17
and a half root growth in 10 minutes in our hands uh with seeds um the metal
30:24
bending even fireplace pokers you know the big heavy metal got pictures of that um have a picture
30:32
of somebody bending a a wooden pencil into a pretzel shape um weird stuff and
30:40
um studying it there’s physicists that look at this the metal looks different
30:45
on a under electron microscope than if you bent it by force uh with a machine
30:50
or something so it can be faked but uh if if it’s metal that you bought
30:57
yourself and it’s really heavy and you’re holding it and you feel it change in your hand then it becomes a knowing
31:03
for you that it’s not fake U so it’s a great training device much like the dice throwing is that this stuff is real and
31:11
and within human capacity and for me uh the energy is the same as used in
31:19
energy healing like to heal a physical body as well as in manifesting what we’d like in life so that’s what I’ve been
31:26
studying the last 20 plus years the U exercise you referenced called liquid
31:32
luck is my opper my trying to take 30 years of this kind of stuff and reduce
31:38
it to 30 minutes to give people a taste and so when they buy that sometimes they
31:43
uh um have w win Lotto tickets and things like that and and get their own
31:50
quote proof something’s going on um so it’s been a focus of mine
31:58
that I liked because the psychokinesis with dice with um slot machines to some
32:05
extent metal bending and that kind of thing can be studied in a laboratory and and you can get statistics there that at
32:12
this point if you summarize all the statistics it’s what we call a seven Sigma event about a trillion to one by
32:19
chance uh that this would only occur by chance and uh so it’s more likely that
32:26
something really is valid here that that these are human capabilities but Alina the
32:33
um the thing to me is it’s very natural but that doesn’t mean easy um sleep is
32:39
natural and if I got tired tonight I go oh I’m getting tired I think I go to
32:45
sleep I yawn a couple times and I lay down and I forget the intention to go to sleep I might think of what I’m going to
32:51
do the next day or something and we fall asleep but if I said to somebody okay
32:57
you know you fall sleep pretty well most of the time yeah okay I’m going to put you on TV I’ll give you a million
33:03
dollars if you fall asleep in the next half hour nobody could do it with an audience watching or most people
33:10
couldn’t because now you’re self-conscious you’re trying too hard you know and the same thing happens with
33:15
metal bending you know if it’s not happening usually the person is trying too hard um and so when we teach metal
33:24
bending it’s really teaching to get out out of fear to build high energy to
33:31
focus it through your heart uh to have a Clarity of intention uh
33:38
versus this is how you make a d di or dice land in a certain pattern or this
33:44
is the way you make seeds grow in your hand we ego doesn’t know how to do it
33:50
and it doesn’t know how to bend metal but if you can get ego out of the way
33:55
then things happen yeah I I mean I did want to ask about the spoon bending because I know that
34:02
the Monroe Institute I think still does a Course once a month in it I don’t know if it’s virtual or but I I saw it on the
34:08
website yeah they do they have a couple hourong around once a month virtual this
34:14
is how you bend metal uh the MC squar program has been going 20 years uh we go
34:21
in a lot more depth about um what you need to do to be able to manifest and
34:27
use this energy for healing as well as metal bending yes so it is being taught this Moon bending by itself in just a
34:33
couple hours um as gives a taste and then MC squared you go into great depth
34:40
and then I have a home study version called syn creation that engages in the metal bending and the seed growing and
34:47
all that with coaching with me so there’s an option to get it various different ways depending how deep you
34:54
want to go but the um the spoon bending and
35:00
the and the luck at the casino and Growing Seeds that’s almost it’s almost
35:06
incidental to where you’re trying to get people to go though isn’t it it’s it’s it’s more the experience of and you can
35:13
fill in the blank I would say you know trying to open your heart open your field you tell
35:18
me yeah uh bottom line I think these are all different excuses to love each other
35:25
in different ways okay and love yourself um within that
35:32
um and I’m going to explain that a little bit more most of the things you see out
35:38
there are affecting matter with your mind and and visualization for manifesting and and even in the
35:45
psychokinesis like the metal bending I don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the mind is the
35:52
steering wheel of a car it just sets direction of intention the car goes nowhere without about
35:58
gas the best gas we found for this and for life is unconditional love so having
36:04
that flowing plus intention is when you get these quote Miracle results uh and
36:10
that’s where where I’m trying to go is to use these as feedback devices because in life if somebody
36:17
thought Negative they could think negatively for six weeks before they got a cold or some reflection of that
36:24
negativity if they wanted a soulmate they could pray for the soulmate and
36:29
visualize for a year and it may take even longer than that for that to come in for everything to arrange in perfect
36:37
ESS for the universe to have that happen so you could get discouraged and when
36:43
we’re at the dice table within seconds we get rewarded for being in unconditional love connected to Spirit
36:50
grounded to the Earth Here and Now in the present moment rather than worried about past or future and if we go into
36:57
greed and ego we get punished by withdrawal of money within seconds a very quick training to a more
37:04
enlightened way of living I thought you were gonna tell me you get punished by the casino staff who’s like what are you
37:09
people doing at our dice table no no they they uh they they they watch us and
37:15
they filmed us and whatever but they’re not too worried about us because we’re not trying to make a killing we’re
37:20
betting small amounts and uh say you were you’re in a bed medal today uh
37:28
and the person first tries by gee I’m afraid I won’t be able to do it so fear
37:35
is in the way it’s not going to happen then underneath that is I’m afraid I will be able to do it and if I do it it
37:41
changes my whole concept of reality and all my other beliefs and my sense of power and responsibility in my own life
37:48
and how the universe works so there’s a little bit of fear there too so there’s
37:53
a fear of not doing it or doing it and all that if we gentle that out um the
38:01
first thing people will usually try to do is great effort you know justy like trying to lift the foundation of a house
38:07
and it doesn’t work and so then they have to figure a way to project power without effort and uh people in sports
38:16
know how to do that you know flow States um people that are trained uh you know
38:23
there’s a 10,000 hour rule I don’t know if it’s really a rule but like the Beatles played in clubs around Europe
38:30
before they ever quote became famous by the time they became famous they were at ease with their instrument so um we’re
38:38
trying to teach the the instrument of the body if you will in the mind and the spirit so you know the notes enough well
38:46
enough that you can make music that you couldn’t make before if you will in this case it’s metal bending in another case
38:53
it might be um healing a scratch that you know your cat scratch on your your arm within 5 minutes whatever it might
39:00
be it’s an application of uh Power that we’re not taught in grade school or high
39:07
school or college but is a natural part of our abilities in my opinion does that
39:12
make sense it does it does and I I did want to I I almost feel this is evil
39:18
when you read parts of people’s books back to them sometimes but I’m going to do that okay so um you had said in Vegas
39:26
now this is one of your books in addition to liquid luck that is kind of similar um inner Vegas shows you how to
39:32
apply the energy of the heart to create health and good fortune and how to tame the dragons you may encounter along the
39:39
way I want to talk about the dragons sure so so I’m using the word Dragon for
39:47
fear to me love has no opposite we’ve been talking about love being the energy
39:52
so hate is not the opposite but fear can Cloud love um
39:58
very very cloudy if you will and fear used broadly that would name could be
40:03
cynicism boredom confusion anger like if somebody cuts you off in traffic you
40:09
know the first reaction you’re aware of is anger maybe but right before that was fear that you’re going to be hurt or
40:15
your car was going to be dented so we’re using fear very broadly okay
40:21
um and uh that’s the main challenge is to kind of reduce the
40:27
fear uh and it doesn’t work like some systems try to kill ego you can’t kill
40:34
ego but you can soften it and with that it tends to soften the fears one of the
40:40
big ways like in liquid luck that meditation we mentioned we move into things like happiness gratitude feelings
40:48
of abundance that tends heart gets us out of ego and then we think of things
40:55
where we feel compassion and begin to feel fortunate and then with all of that you might have better
41:01
luck with the lottery ticket so it’s uh it’s a lot of working with reducing fear
41:08
does that help yes question it does I mean I no it’s a diff that’s I think
41:14
this is the most difficult part of the whole process of and also just of being you know when we’re talking about being
41:19
in Carnet um and I know that there are certain schools that just try to replace
41:26
the dragon with gra attitude if you just focus on gratitude which works to some extent um the other thing I did want to
41:33
ask about though is where self-esteem fits into this equation or
41:38
okay or self okay so I’m gonna go back a little bit on the dragons I first when I
41:43
went to Vegas I would find I’m afraid of doing too well and the casino will ban me I’m afraid of not doing well and
41:49
losing my money those would be examples of dragons Okay um and meeting fear with
41:56
courage can work gratitude can work but I found it was easier to melt Fear With Love if I go into love uh which might be
42:04
thinking of my at this point my mom say when I’m at a slot machine or my brother’s people that are on the other
42:11
side I just uh think how much I love them and feel the flow of energy uh like
42:16
we’re in connection and spirit and then once a while say Okay M give me a jackpot or something and pull the handle
42:23
or press the button nowadays and boom the jackpot so that’s what’s going on there esteem
42:31
in general it’s self-concept I would say more than
42:37
self-esteem um so when Ro Institute did an exercise a
42:43
long time ago for to help with golf for people and people started they focused
42:49
in the Imaging and the meditation to drive a long distance and people started driving incredibly but then 70
42:57
putt they had seven putt a whole because their their impression was that they were an 80s golfer a ’90s golfer ’70s
43:05
golfer so that was their self-concept and that’s what you hit um so as I
43:11
started doing real well in Vegas for example the cruise would say Here Comes Mr Lucky and I would say I’m not lucky
43:19
because in my family I was youngest of four boys my my folks had more money
43:24
they were easier on me raising me than my brothers so my brothers would say he’s the lucky one and I say I’m not
43:31
lucky so my self-concept is I earned everything by hard work it was not luck
43:38
and so if you have a concept like that it’s hard for Fortune to bless you um
43:44
yeah because you have to feel you could receive whether you’ve worked for it or not yeah and and say you did well and
43:49
and if but somebody said looked at you said oh you’re just lucky that would be you didn’t deserve it you didn’t put in
43:56
all that effort so Concepts get to be very important there was a guy he wanted
44:02
a job I’m going to try to make this a quick story not have any luck and I said what do you really want and he said a
44:08
job about two months a year in beautiful weather and we had him put that out of
44:15
meditation and he got an advertising boat at the ocean in the Northeast shore
44:20
of United States and uh pretty girl would drive the boat up and down the
44:26
beach Co cola have one side local restaurant the other by the end of the year he had three boats on Alexus and
44:33
this the season was two months long but for most people as soon as you say
44:38
job only two months a year they laugh because for them 60 hours a week 50
44:45
weeks a year equals job so that would be concept there I’ll give you another big
44:52
concept many of the people come to Monro if I put said show of hands how many of you you are Seekers of wisdom Seekers of
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spiritual knowledge all the hands go up I say wouldn’t you rather be a finder
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it’s a different energy okay and and so we can have things that feel really good inside like
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I’m a Seeker I’m you know I’m on a righteous path yet that could get in the
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way of being a finder is that making sense yes it does yes it does so we deal
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with those kinds of things in the home study course in the MC squar program in the three-hour spoon bending Workshop
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they they try to transcend that quickly to get you all excited to show you yes you can do it same kind of the liquid
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luck meditation I do we try to transcend all the issues humans can have and just
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have such a vivid image of having this magic liquid you can drink and have luck
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that you can transcend all that fear and doubt and self-concept issues uh for
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temporarily enough to get a taste of what’s possible so that’s why we do
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that you also um think that that I don’t
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want to say these phenomena but these experiences should be measurable and repeatable they should be we should be
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able to have some harder what people would call harder s science what do you have any idea of like what would be the
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perfect like a really solid experiment like how would you design it how big
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would your group be what would you do
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um yeah I do I do like the idea that we can verify so because you can trick
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yourself you know uh in in ways uh so um
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one one that I like I just is coming to mind that’s quite elegant recently is in
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science we call it fourway double blind nobody knows who’s the experiment group
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and who’s the control group and within that we can take vials of liquid and put
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bacteria in the vial and and so in a vial you might have
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a 100 million bacteria in one vial all right think because bacteria are tiny
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and you can put an antibiotic in there that we know is proven to kill
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95% of the bacteria within 15 minutes let’s say all
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right and then we can have another vial that no knows which is which that energy
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healers have prayed over to protect the vial to protect those bacteria
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inside and then other people who are don’t know which is which will measure
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and in that vial that’s had the protection maybe 90% of the bacteria
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survive for 15 minutes instead of 90% are killed the reason why that’s elegant
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is there’s no placebo effect there’s no people involved you know in powers of
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suggestion and there’s with metal bending for example it’s very messy you
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know the accusation can be I pre- soften the metal I’m using closeand magician
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work I’m you know super strong I went into some kind of hypnotic State like a
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woman lifting a car off a child as if that explains anything but you know
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they’ll come up with weird explanations that bacteria study I just mentioned is
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is very repeated then somebody else can do it in their lab in another lab across the country um and so we look for things
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like that has it been done this experiment or is this something has it been done what you just described done
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and has been done successfully um the ones I’ve participated in they’ll put like 120
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lead EG on my head um so they’re measuring brain wave patterns and they
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will say affect this gray box that has sensors in it for 48 seconds and then
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let 48 seconds rest 48 seconds use the psychokinesis through 100 trials and
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those will come out significant statistically that that the box was different when you’re trying to affect
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it um and and you and in the MC squar program we mentioned we have over a
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decade of data showing groups do that and and accumulate data to statistical
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significance level and that’s a little nicer than just accepting somebody’s word for
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it it get spooky though because if the experiment believes it’s possible it’s more likely that it’ll be a positive
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result and if the experiment believes this can’t can’t possibly work it won’t
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most times so there are experiment effects even in the purest quote of
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science um that that we’re learning about you know in physics they talk
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about the observer effect yeah you also um had some overlap
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with the Department of perceptual studies at UVA yes they I know they do a
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lot of research what did you do with them so that one with 48 seconds on and off I just mentioned was at UVA
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University of Virginia uh division of perceptual studies they’re the ones that
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have also come up to mroe Institute and gathered data for over a decade on the m
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C squ program they have a talented subjects area where they um will bring
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people in who have a reputation of being great healers or what have you uh their
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one of their staff members is also a co-director of research at Monroe Institute and so they have like a copper
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room it’s all copper with shielding and they can measure people’s electrical field and they’ll see higher fields on
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people who are able project energy well um and they coordinate with other
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organizations Ry Institute they used to be with North Carolina University it’s
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separate now uh they have a room where it’s completely dark to the place where
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you could count just a few photons in the room when nobody’s there when a human comes in there’s more photons and
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with a Healer comes in and you say make the room light you know it explodes in light and in terms of what
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they can measure in terms of how many photons so we’re we’re trying to get some objective quod data rather than
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just uh people’s feelings like gee I think I talked to Grandma last night or
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whatever that may well have great validity for the individual and it may be 100% true but it’s hard to replicate
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in the lab yeah I know I have a lot of relatives my dad and my sister and just
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tons of aunts and uncles who are deceased and I had had when my
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grandparents died I I had experiences but I had to say to myself I don’t know if this is real because I want it to be
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you know I want my heart’s desire and then I had a couple one of them was just a couple years ago where my aunt had
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died but I didn’t know it and I had a dream with my father and my sister and my uncle who had died just a month
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before and they were with my aunt who was doing what she would do whenever she would come to our house she always came
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with little goodie bags and things like that and you couldn’t do anything until you dealt with her like she couldn’t
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settle until you took the oldtime magazines and the little casserole she made and in this dream she was doing
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that and my Uncle George looked at me and she said ah she’s okay because she was just unpacking and I woke up in the morning and I said to my mom I said I
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think Aunt Mary’s gone because she was with all our dead relatives and we and we got the call a day and a half later
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that was one of the few experiences that I could say that wasn’t just me because I wanted it that was something you might
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have not wanted the exact you would have wanted the exact opposite yes and and there’s a part where we can lie to
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ourselves very easily when we when our emotions are in a certain place so yeah
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I think the research portion is so important I and just backing up I always think of um the department of perceptual
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studies as doing near-death work that I’d love to talk to them about but that’s what I think of them doing I didn’t realize they they got going
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initially with three Incarnation work uh and have I think 4,000 at least
53:30
documented cases of reincarnation they they were formed by a grant to uh get
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some of that going but they do have uh they broaden out into this area of
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studying energy healing and psychokinesis and and those kind of
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things um maybe not as much telepathy as Institute of noetic science does and
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some other organizations but they they have Bren but you know even with your
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your aunt and many people have that experience they’ll you know even not in a dream they’re walking and all of a
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sudden they know a relative died Skeptics will say you psychically picked
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up that their health was beginning to fail or whatever they will say oh you
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just telepathically picked up something from somebody that knew she was dead
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that’s not much of a explanation because that involves
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psychic functioning as well but they will try their hardest to to not say uh
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this is proof of physical death um or proof of communication uh through the
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veil um you know the interesting thing about Lifeline the program up in Monroe
54:45
it’s been going two decades now is we’ll get some things that are pretty darn
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verifiable where the you know Aunt Melly will die or whatever and she’ll say you
54:56
know look onto the fourth floorboard in this house in the attic and there’s this box and inside the box is this letter
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that explains something that I have to tell somebody and uh they’ll go and they’ll find the letter things that
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would be hard to make up yeah yeah okay Joe are you ready for the lightning
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round a final question I didn’t know there was going to be one I’m GNA take a sip of water before a lightning reset me
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too
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okay okay um so first question is what do you feel what in your view is a
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well-lived life this body this Incarnation I like Emerson’s uh definition of leaving the
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place a little better than when you came that’s lovely what do you suspect is the true
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nature of reality I think if you look at protons
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and neutrons elect and they break down into quirks and then they break down
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best we know into information packets and um and all at the very base of all
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of that it looks like it’s Consciousness and I think Consciousness is love so I’d say the love is the ground of
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reality okay how do you feel people can better be engaged with their Consciousness or
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love we know a lot of people are just going to work to pay attention to things like the beauty of nature beauty of
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Music beauty of how people care for each other and not listen to Broadcast News
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if you will and a lot of hype and stories that are fear generating and and
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that’s the external looking and inside I think meditation has a good place um as
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ability if the mind quiets that we begin to see we are more than our physical bodies our ego minds and what have you
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so you you have to almost or you’re invited to create a window into more of
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who you are before you have something like a heart attack that rearranges all your values or a near-death experience
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or or who knows what um you can get to the kinds of wisdoms and insights people
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have under crisis like that through something like a good meditation regime
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and I will make a commercial meditation is not always la la feel good
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relax because as you get more sensitive to yourself you might realize you might need to go through a divorce or you
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might need to change something ra radical in the marriage that you’re scared to bring up or you might need to
57:40
have a conversation with your boss or your child that you don’t want to have or that the job is no fun anymore you
57:48
know even though it has gold in their silver handcuffs to it in terms of what you get paid so meditation can bring up
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awareness of things that are not comfortable but if you make those changes most times people have an even
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Fuller life that was a long answer I’m sorry it has to be the secrets to life
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Joe they have to be piffy yeah be two words 42 or 43 what’s that yeah so when
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you die is there anything you hope to have
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answered or to to find out I’m actually hoping
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to get confirmation of feelings I’ve had before Life coming in when I’ve gotten
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in touch with that in meditation of deep deep knowing that all
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is in right order that at some level Beyond Good and Evil black and white
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wrong and right there’s a place where you know everything is praising everything so uh that’s where I will aim
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for because I I’ve had a taste of that and I think that is the actual that
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reality is a little realer it’s paradoxical there’s a book from middle Egyptian times called the
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cabilan and and the first truth is everything is a dream second is everything is real third is biggest
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mistake you can make is deciding one of those statements is truer than the other so there’s a paradoxical nature so you
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can’t say you know that the pain and suffering here are not real but my
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brother’s feeling and many people when I talk to them on the other side is lives here are like a blink of an eye over
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there and so they say don’t sweat the small stuff so much they know that while you’re living it it can seem agonizingly
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slow if you’re in the middle of a of a dental filling and the novocaine hasn’t
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taken effect but from over their perspective even 20 years of depression
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or whatever is like a blink of the eye so um I I hope to find
1:00:01
um I know love is real and I hope to just find that I can embibe in it um
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well once I’m I have dropped the physical and I and I think that’ll be the
1:00:17
case okay and this is a haale little question compared to that one but where
1:00:23
but it’s important where can people find you and the good that you’re doing I
1:00:28
have a website believe it or not I’m the only person in the world to have discovered that uh and it’s www dot and
1:00:37
then the word sync Sy YN C like synchronize Sy YN C and then the word
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creation c a t o n so s y NC c a t
1:00:49
n.com and um there there’s a lot of free articles about energy healing
1:00:55
psychokinesis is the things we’re talking about and then um a lot of individual meditations on download as
1:01:02
well as that home study course um if person Googles if it’s easier to
1:01:08
remember liquid luck that’s one probably my most uh bestselling book in
1:01:15
meditation so uh if you Google liquid luck you’ll find me as well okay and any
1:01:22
last messages for the audience today um I think I’m going to end with one of
1:01:28
my favorite sayings um and I even have it on the wall I can look at and that is fear is
1:01:36
expensive love is priceless Choose Wisely so thank you fear is expensive
1:01:42
and we’re we’re coming on an election we’re coming on issues of climate and whatever that people have very different
1:01:49
points of view on it but it can generate a lot of fear and if we make decisions
1:01:54
out of fear um they’re not going to be as high quality as if we make them out of love
1:02:00
so um I I’ll stick with that as my last words that’s beautiful that’s lovely oh
1:02:07
thank you thank you so much for being with me today sure bye bye bye
1:02:12
bye thanks for watching click to join us on another journey and don’t forget to
1:02:17
subscribe [Music]
On today’s show, the Journeying Soul welcomes a man with a lovely heart: Dr. Joseph Gallenberger. Joe is a clinical psychologist who has created courses and taught for decades at the Monroe Institute, famous for the U.S. government’s secret Stargate program and for identifying the ability of binaural beats to induce altered states of consciousness.
We discuss Joe’s experiences with after death communication, out of body experience, and manifestation. We also discuss how people can approach learning psychokinesis and expanding their own abilities with ADC, OOB, and manifestation.
Where to Find Our Guest
📚Books by Joe Gallenberger
Liquid Luck: The Good Fortune Handbook
Sip and Support the Journeying Soul. Get the Emerson Paraphrase mug inspired by Joe’s answer to our lightning round questions.
Dr. Joe Gallenberger is a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience as a therapist and a great interest in the universal principles of manifestation. In 1995, he began exploring psychokinesis, the ability to influence matter through non-physical means. He has achieved statistically powerful results in university laboratories and, after advancing his methods over years of study, began to teach this skill to groups that share his passion and interest in the fundamentals of manifestation.
Dr. Gallenberger offers a variety of programs designed to expand consciousness through delight. His SyncCreation® home study course, and ninety-nine Inner Vegas Adventure Workshops™ have taken participants into fascinating states of power and intuition. His students achieve strong altered states of consciousness and energy, resulting in dramatic physical and psychological healing, strong influence over dice and slot machines, and many beautiful manifestations in participant’s lives at home.
Joe is also a long-time meditator and a trainer for 30 years at the world-famous Monroe Institute®, which teaches expanded human consciousness to an international clientele. Robert Monroe, whom Joe knew personally, founded the Institute and was a pioneer in consciousness exploration. Joe trains a spectrum of Monroe courses and he developed the Institute’s highly successful MC² (Manifestation and Creation Squared) program.
Joe also offers meditation exercises on CD and Download including: Manifesting with Hemi-Sync®, Partners Meditation, Liquid Luck, Abundance Waterfall, The Healing Heart, The Abundant Heart, The Ocean Heart, and The Forgiving Heart.
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most of the things you see out there are affecting matter with your mind and Ma and visualization from manifesting and I
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don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the Mind as a steering wheel of a car it just sets
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direction of intention the car goes nowhere without gas the best gas we found for this and
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for life is unconditional love so having that flowing plus intention is when you
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get these quote Miracle results
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[Music]
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I’d like to welcome to the journeying soul Dr Joseph gallenberger how are you doing today Joe
0:50
hello thank you so much for coming on the show yeah my sounding okay to you
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sometimes uh when I go on Zoom I sound like a mouse until I go on twice you’re good you’re good let us begin so you are
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a clinical psychologist by trade but have been since in the Monroe Institute
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since the early 90s did you know Bob Monroe yes I uh you know I did not know
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him well like a best friend but working up there um for about 10 weeks a year
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for the last 30 years uh in the early part of that while he was living uh we’d
1:30
have occasion to sit on a hill together and look at the birds uh flying in The Thermals and him talking about new ideas
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for new things uh in his uh meditations um how life was going for
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him those kind of things and also a little bit what was going in on in my life so I also got to see him talk in
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front of many many groups and U he was a great uh presenter if you will and would
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hold the audience and wrapped attention for hours as he talked you knew him towards the end of his life I guess that
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overlap what else was he looking to do it’s actually consistent with what he wanted to do let me give you the
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evolution initially he wanted to run 5,000 people through using brain wave
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patterning exercises on on headphones using sound to see if he could duplicate
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what he called his Auto Body Experience um because he thought that 5,000 people would be a good research
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base for that uh and uh quickly it broadened into as he began programs in
2:39
this uh people discovering all kinds of things contacts with guides visiting
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loved ones who had passed many different things that he may not have been expecting in the beginning so by the end
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of his life his feeling was more um that
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his work could help the world reduced its level of fear
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because it would lose its fear of death for one and that was behind a lot of our
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our problems is survival orienting we you know do a lot of things to try to uh
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survival of the fittest if you will so by gentling that out and seeing that we survive physical death in some form he
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felt that many of the world’s problems would be able to shift and and be eased
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so his goal which he passed on uh to the people who now are in charge was that he
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thought if they could they’ve concretized this into if they can get 1%
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of the world to experience uh some alteration and conscious awareness either through
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Monroe Institute technique or other meditation techniques that they think
3:54
that that will be very transformative so the Monroe institute’s goal at this point is to reach 8 million people I
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think by maybe 2030 I’m not sure on the date but uh so
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they’ve expanded into having a free app you can get on the phone with meditations there’s a paid subscription
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to that that goes even deeper when M Bob was in live he was
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doing mainly weeklong workshops intensive residential that took quite a bit of commitment of time and money
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now they’ve broadened into uh 2hour workshops three-hour workshops half day
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full day 3- day one long week but virtual that started with covid and and
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also the residential so they’re trying to create a larger funnel where people can come in at whatever level they might
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be interested in if that was just to learn Technologies to relax and sleep
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better to um to work with energy healing
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contac and guidance better higher creativity that there’d be something at the institute for them that would gently
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push them more to understand uh that they’re more than their physical body
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their personality their gender role uh their job at work and that we might be
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Spiritual Beings having a physical experience if you will um so that’s what’s uh going on at the Institute
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since he died how did how did your family feel you’re you got a degree in
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Psychology you’re a clinical psychologist you’re you’re a doctor in the family how did they feel when you
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went to Monroe did they have an opinion about it one way or the
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other um I would say it would be variable though all my family ethos was
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to respect each person’s Journey so um I was thinking of becoming a monk when I
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was 12 13 years old I applied and went to uh a monastery and my parents
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reaction to that was whatever you decide you know if it’s genuine and you’re an
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Integrity um you know we applaud your your path in life whatever that might be
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most of my family was very business-oriented uh presidents and vice presidents of very large companies and
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things and so being a doctor was a Divergence from that um by itself uh
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then in in terms of being caregiving which I saw you know the doctor role as um a legitimate one um I presented this
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which was true the mro was giving me a technology through these meditations on
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headphones where I could handle people’s anxiety depression issues and what have you much much more rapidly and
6:52
effectively than some of the talk therapy or in combination with that
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things went better so they were fine with that as you get into the out of- body parts uh and contacting people who
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passed to the other side then my family would diverge uh a bit there um my my mother
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and and a few brothers were highly interested and my father and and some
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other siblings would been a little more conservative on that word but they still didn’t they were interested in listening
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uh but they wouldn’t have any inclination to try that themselves the folks that weren’t if you
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will but since you had the desire to become a monk they it was sort of in your wheelhouse I guess but also more
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importantly you you probably knew how to meditate before you got to you know you started to work at the
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Monroe Institute I would think I I was more in the um the monk area was
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Catholic and they teach uh various forms of prayer so supplicative prayer which
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would be Lord would you buy me a mercedesbenz to um to uh intercessory
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prayer help someone else to U praising to contemplation and I was aware of
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those kinds of things um the monastery was in basically mostly silence all you
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know except for classes at that time so there was um a lot of that background
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but I didn’t have any formal like TM training or making your mind blank kind of meditation type of training and in
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fact Monroe doesn’t really strive to do that they have a uh about a 10-minute
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beginning to most meditations that is designed to quiet ego and open the heart and after that
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when something comes up they engage with it as either something to look at or a
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message versus thinking that would be a distraction like you might in some other meditative
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systems um but yeah I had some um how did how was it for you um when you first
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some familiarity U with the idea of looking inside and uh and
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um finding that of benefit so self-reflective I guess you’d
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say um how did how was it for you um when you first
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started meditating let’s say through with the Monroe techniques as opposed to
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what you had done did did somebody teach you this or is it just purely here’s the
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headphones uh frankly I got a bootlegged copy of an old cassette from a rebel
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yeah one of his m5000 program which has gone into a be as the Monroe institute’s
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Gateway program now and um the person said sh don’t tell anybody and you know
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but listen to this it blew me away it it empowered meditation so beautifully that
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within minutes you are deeply deeply relaxed maybe more so than ever in your life and then beginning to connect with
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u uh higher energies creativity six senses six sense uh things beyond your
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five physical senses um so that was an introduction
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but I pretty rapidly went up to Monroe Institute and in the Gateway found it one of the most profound weeks of my
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life in terms of uh opening my eyes to what is possible um in terms of our
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connection to Spirit while we’re still in body if you will what was it like the first time you
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walked into the Institute did you feel like you’d found your people yeah I uh I was buzzing before I
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even got there I was excited um a friend of mine came uh that
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I hadn’t seen in years unexpectedly the night I was going to drive up to Virginia from North Carolina and we
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stayed up till midnight talking so I left in the middle of the night and uh about 3:00 a.m. I stopped I was tired
11:12
someplace in rural Virginia and it was very humid I went in got a hotel room
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laid down couldn’t sleep I was too excited got back up and said Gee I wish I hadn’t had to pay for this room I only
11:25
was in it 20 minutes but I went to the desk to pay the the guy and I paid him and it was about 20 bucks that’s how
11:32
long ago it was and when I walked out of the door there was a freshly folded $20
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bill completely dry on the step and uh Miracle things like that happened all
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all the way up to the Institute um when I got there it felt like home um it was
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so good to talk to people about things that I thought uh were quite weird and maybe other people hadn’t experience and
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it The Institute is great because it has no Dogma so it attracts atheists and Buddhists and fundamentalist ministers
12:05
Republicans and Democrats and and they everybody respects each other while they’re there and gets along well um so
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it did feel like Community um and the meditations were very deep I had some
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out of body experiences which I had had spontaneous in my life but this was more
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controlled uh but also you know feelings of connection with spirit
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that years of prayer had not really uh taken me as deeply as within that week
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um so I was real impressed I wanted to go back which I did pretty quickly after two or three times I said this is
12:45
getting expensive and decided I’d like to be a trainer this is 33 years ago
12:51
maybe uh and it got accepted uh they have a very strong Apprentice program to be a trainer you got to go through quite
12:58
a few steps and um I did that and so I’ve been training there I think 30 plus years um
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as a result and one of the big things I’d been to other workshops where there was kind of a guru feeling and you had
13:13
to wear an orange robe or believe something to be accepted and this had
13:19
none of that and that appealed to me as well as a scientific basis they were using 128 lead EGS measuring brain wave
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patterns being able to put things on paper uh to prove that this wasn’t just
13:34
all wishful thinking so I was really impressed at the research base of the Institute as
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well you were there I think you were there had gotten there right before
13:46
there was um an article in the Wall Street Journal I guess the front page story that sort of outed I guess the I
13:54
don’t know if it outed the army or if it out or the government or if it outed the Monroe Institute but the story broke
14:01
that the government was had partnered with the Monroe Institute what was the
14:06
vibe in The Institute when that story came out okay well some of these things now
14:12
are being combined that I don’t think go together but there was a New York Times article and it resulted in a lot of
14:20
people wanting to come and then wanting Stak and fil in yond okay and and when
14:27
there would be an article at that same time there was one in Mother Earth News and all those people came and wanted
14:33
vegetarian fair and you know very different audiences uh from different
14:38
articles as well as Bob’s original books and so um the kitchen was having fits
14:44
trying to figure out which kind of meals to serve as the audiences would change
14:50
um the military things were kept quite uh they weren’t trying to be kept secret
14:57
but they were uh as everybody’s uh who goes there their privacy was respected
15:04
so if you have an army general or you had a rock star or you had a Hollywood
15:09
bigname Hollywood person there that would not be disclosed right that would be you still had almost you almost had
15:16
like the you know your background like a psychologist sense of privacy that people are coming here to kind of work
15:22
because we knew we we knew you know with the right to privacy somebody would get fired from their job even if their
15:28
employer found out they were engaged in something quotes weird so that’s going
15:34
on now there was an article that came out about the Gateway program this Premier program uh where the CIA and
15:43
other government organizations were researching remote viewing the ability to sense things without regard to time
15:51
or distance and whether the Gateway program could help them increase
15:56
accuracy reduce burnout uh increase the quickness in which
16:02
somebody could get into the meditative state to do this kind of uh psychic work
16:07
and that article then recently has hit the the news uh with a missing page
16:15
which was actually just a page that was forgotten to be xeroxed um copied when they did it but
16:22
it it caught the attention of a lot of uh influencers currently on on the web
16:29
and so there’s been quite a surge in the last year about that article from the
16:34
CIA um because frankly a lot of people didn’t even know the Institute existed so it brought into mind um uh that a
16:44
little more and uh and that group are you know everybody that comes is curious
16:50
The Wall Street Journal people were curious in one way or another some of them like this information to be able to
16:57
perhaps to handle ego better when they would make trading in the markets and maybe even
17:04
increase their intuition those kind of things um the uh Mother Earth News
17:10
article might have accented something very different such as out of body and
17:16
so you get people with a variety interest coming there so what so it seemed to me in just
17:23
looking at the Timeline that that article coming out led to or influenced the the
17:29
government wrapping up some work with with on on I guess it was um with the
17:36
Monroe Institute um and and or pulling funding what what followed What did the
17:43
and I don’t know if you can say did the work really keep going on under another name or was it something that the
17:49
Institute had to adjust to am I right about that I am not privy
17:57
to the deepest layers of finances with all of this okay from from the layer of
18:03
which I was operating getting paid to be a consultant trainer you know they’re not we’re not employees they they hire
18:11
people to come in from four to 10 weeks a year um and looking at how things are
18:18
renovated buildings being built or whatever it would be it seemed like um
18:23
there was not a huge change depending on what the military was doing I I think
18:29
that was a fair Fairly aside um interest in the main thrust of
18:34
The Institute it was siloed off were coming you know to explore things but
18:40
Joe MCM monacle is I I feel one of the world’s best remote viewers he was a
18:45
remote viewer 001 in the government program that went for 20 years he ended up marrying one of
18:53
Bob’s uh children he lives up there he still talks in many of the programs
18:59
there about remote viewing and has his own remote viewing program there that has been there for at least the last 20
19:06
years so that continuity is continued um
19:11
and uh you’re right in terms of the the
19:16
formal remote viewing program under the name Stargate and Grill flame and
19:22
several other government names as best we know officially ended um there’s
19:29
still quite a bit of government interacting with remote viewers of that
19:34
level quality to find lost children to solve crime to find Temple sites in
19:40
Japan to uh do many things and and I would not be surprised if sometimes they
19:47
are um queried about significant military concerns but again that would
19:55
not be something I would be privy to nor the general public that would usually
20:00
happen at higher levels of security clearance that than I would have that’s for
20:06
sure switching to the personal so your brother Peter um committed suicide about
20:13
two years before you you know started at Monroe was that it doesn’t sound from
20:20
what you said previously that that was any that was a motivating factor for joining Monroe but it sounds a little bit like it was Kismet that it put you
20:27
there um yes so just to correct timeline a little bit um I had already gone to
20:35
Monroe for a few years before becoming a trainer so I was um had taken their
20:41
Gateway program and their second program called guidelines and a third program which is a brand new program called
20:48
Lifeline which involved helping people on the other side and transitioning from
20:53
Death uh I was in the first program as a participant and my brother committed
20:58
suicide or committing suicide is not what we say anymore um trying he died by
21:04
Suicide um about a week after that first program um and um it was helpful to me
21:13
to have the Monroe group uh hone in on him on the other side and helpful to me
21:20
in terms of my communication with him so I wrote a book brothers forever and a followup 20 years later called Heaven is
21:26
for healing about what’s G on on the other side for him and what went on in my life here for the last 20 years um
21:36
and The Institute was helpful in seeing at a knowing basis not just
21:42
belief that every drop of experiences treasured and all death leads to light
21:48
and there’s not any judgment as in traditional uh religious kinds of um
21:54
models but when you die there is more triage about what you need to grow grow and learn and heal depending on your
22:01
life circumstances um so the Institute got to be very
22:07
um woven into my life after my brother’s death but I think it was already already
22:15
the best thing going on in my life if you will in terms of excitement and and new information and growth and in fact I
22:23
even had shared some of that with my brother Pete uh and advocated that he go for a program but he didn’t feel um that
22:31
he could alleviate his depression enough to be able to go and use it constructively but my uh thrill about
22:38
Monroe was going on before before he died so I I want to ask you what was it
22:45
like when you first what did what when you first made a connection with Peter after he had left his physical body when
22:53
you were able to reconnect um
22:59
after his death because suicide often does this I and much the family was very
23:06
fried we were just you know too jazzed up to connect much I used the Monroe
23:12
Institute meditation exercises and was able to calm down and feel kind of an
23:17
Angelic consolation but not not his presence particularly um as a few weeks went by
23:25
and I had more of a sense of his presence the first thing that came and
23:30
I’m not a very visual person I’m more of a knower in meditation uh was a visual sign of a
23:37
street sign that had a gavel like a judge’s gavel with a line through it
23:43
with the thought no judgment and how relieved he was that he wasn’t judged as
23:48
and gone to hell like he would have perhaps expected through religious training he was hoping for a drop of
23:56
God’s kindness if you will and forgiveness and um so he was very thrilled there to
24:02
find such a compassion there um then um he would often show up for me
24:10
in in ways that had humor or uh something that he enjoyed like um he was
24:18
a fancy dresser and uh I’m not known for that um and I was going to be on
24:24
television for the first time about a year after he died and I was in my closet picking out the right tie and
24:31
jacket and I I felt his presence come in really strong and to pick out this tie I
24:36
was on the floor one time on sunlet lit floor on a Persian rug and I was
24:41
teaching my about six-year-old daughter how to play poker with using pennies and
24:46
uh she won like the first 10 hands in a row and I got very serious and said to
24:52
her honey this isn’t how it’s supposed to go and then I felt my brother Pete there very strongly laughing and and uh
24:59
so he would appear in those kind of ways in in meditation he really didn’t want
25:04
to put on the cloak of this lifetime personality this body and and so I had
25:11
better luck when I would view him in some Essence quality like his sense of
25:16
humor and compassion and seeing him as a um a being with nobody you know more as
25:23
Spirit pure spirit and then he was willing to engage and interact
25:28
uh and we’d have um more communication most of it was just love streaming back
25:34
and forth um there was a Channeler I think is best in the world who also was
25:42
talking to Pete for me at that time if you will and she would um would describe
25:49
for me some of the uh appreciation he had for all that I I had done for him to
25:55
try to keep him going in this life um and uh a wistfulness over there knowing
26:02
what he knew now that he probably could have uh made different decisions both in
26:08
life and and to die um at that time so there was that type of
26:14
communication um and then as time went on a little bit more I got some more of
26:21
that type of communication where the uh Channeler was having where it be more
26:27
like a conversation you know I might be walking in the woods and feel his presence and and we’d have
26:33
a little bit of a how’s it going brother kind of conversation both
26:38
ways um when you were in addition to being able to reestablish the your that
26:45
relationship did you do things like U the spoon bending that they I know they
26:50
have a course for it I think it’s MC squared at Monroe did you did you also do
26:56
that um initially in my life designed I’m sorry
27:01
you designed mque s yeah mostly in my life it was uh telepathic type of in
27:08
communication particularly with my mom out of body kinds of things the psychokinesis came when I was up at
27:15
Monroe um and um I had a sense somebody had a headache and if I touched them
27:21
their headache it go away I asked permission they said sure I touched them the headache went away that intrigued me
27:28
but it’s it’s fuzzy you don’t know if it would have gone away anyway or God did it or I did it or they did it and if it
27:34
didn’t go away maybe it’s not supposed to human beings are kind of messy in a research model but very quickly I had
27:42
help was helping Bob Monroe to design a program called lifespan 2000 at that
27:48
point and we had a gaming night uh to practice some of the mental tools we
27:54
were learning and within there I started a dice game uh just as something simple we could do
28:01
and I found I could roll what I wanted on the dice seven sevens in a row for example and that intrigued me um so I
28:08
went to Princeton University it’s Princeton engineering
28:16
anomaly P I always want to get the middle mixed up P lab and I could see
28:24
that um I could do psychokinesis at a very strong rate and so I knew it was real and I could do
28:30
it that got me excited and I moved to going to Vegas to do uh to learn because
28:37
the dice and the um slot machines there are very well regulated there can’t be
28:42
any cheating what was it like when you first let’s say bent the spoon or or did
28:47
you was it just did it feel like oh of course or did you have a little thrill
28:53
what did you feel um well again the dice were the first thing that I was was really surprised about and within that I
29:01
could see through physical matter I could hear Angelic choirs I was rolling dice in patterns like the last Workshop
29:08
we did 48 numbers in a row with no seven seven should come up once in every six rolls by satistics so we uh that was the
29:16
first dramatic stuff and I’d leave flying very high i’ go to a slot machine and said like a royal flesh and hearts
29:24
which is 160,000 did it in the first po that kind of stuff so when spoon bending
29:31
came along I wasn’t having any luck and I thought it was probably crap pardon my French uh could be slight of hand
29:38
magician could be fake yeah there’s a trusted very much in their integrity
29:44
said no Joe it’s real and I wasn’t having any luck until somebody who was good at it put their hand behind my back
29:51
kind of on back of my heart chakra while I was holding the metal and it was a real heavy night of stainless steel wear
29:59
uh and it just became like rubber and melted and so I went w that’s pretty
30:04
cool and once I could see it could be done then I did uh was able to do it
30:09
more and I did develop the MC squar program in Monroe where we do dice rolling and Growing Seeds we’ve had inch
30:17
and a half root growth in 10 minutes in our hands uh with seeds um the metal
30:24
bending even fireplace pokers you know the big heavy metal got pictures of that um have a picture
30:32
of somebody bending a a wooden pencil into a pretzel shape um weird stuff and
30:40
um studying it there’s physicists that look at this the metal looks different
30:45
on a under electron microscope than if you bent it by force uh with a machine
30:50
or something so it can be faked but uh if if it’s metal that you bought
30:57
yourself and it’s really heavy and you’re holding it and you feel it change in your hand then it becomes a knowing
31:03
for you that it’s not fake U so it’s a great training device much like the dice throwing is that this stuff is real and
31:11
and within human capacity and for me uh the energy is the same as used in
31:19
energy healing like to heal a physical body as well as in manifesting what we’d like in life so that’s what I’ve been
31:26
studying the last 20 plus years the U exercise you referenced called liquid
31:32
luck is my opper my trying to take 30 years of this kind of stuff and reduce
31:38
it to 30 minutes to give people a taste and so when they buy that sometimes they
31:43
uh um have w win Lotto tickets and things like that and and get their own
31:50
quote proof something’s going on um so it’s been a focus of mine
31:58
that I liked because the psychokinesis with dice with um slot machines to some
32:05
extent metal bending and that kind of thing can be studied in a laboratory and and you can get statistics there that at
32:12
this point if you summarize all the statistics it’s what we call a seven Sigma event about a trillion to one by
32:19
chance uh that this would only occur by chance and uh so it’s more likely that
32:26
something really is valid here that that these are human capabilities but Alina the
32:33
um the thing to me is it’s very natural but that doesn’t mean easy um sleep is
32:39
natural and if I got tired tonight I go oh I’m getting tired I think I go to
32:45
sleep I yawn a couple times and I lay down and I forget the intention to go to sleep I might think of what I’m going to
32:51
do the next day or something and we fall asleep but if I said to somebody okay
32:57
you know you fall sleep pretty well most of the time yeah okay I’m going to put you on TV I’ll give you a million
33:03
dollars if you fall asleep in the next half hour nobody could do it with an audience watching or most people
33:10
couldn’t because now you’re self-conscious you’re trying too hard you know and the same thing happens with
33:15
metal bending you know if it’s not happening usually the person is trying too hard um and so when we teach metal
33:24
bending it’s really teaching to get out out of fear to build high energy to
33:31
focus it through your heart uh to have a Clarity of intention uh
33:38
versus this is how you make a d di or dice land in a certain pattern or this
33:44
is the way you make seeds grow in your hand we ego doesn’t know how to do it
33:50
and it doesn’t know how to bend metal but if you can get ego out of the way
33:55
then things happen yeah I I mean I did want to ask about the spoon bending because I know that
34:02
the Monroe Institute I think still does a Course once a month in it I don’t know if it’s virtual or but I I saw it on the
34:08
website yeah they do they have a couple hourong around once a month virtual this
34:14
is how you bend metal uh the MC squar program has been going 20 years uh we go
34:21
in a lot more depth about um what you need to do to be able to manifest and
34:27
use this energy for healing as well as metal bending yes so it is being taught this Moon bending by itself in just a
34:33
couple hours um as gives a taste and then MC squared you go into great depth
34:40
and then I have a home study version called syn creation that engages in the metal bending and the seed growing and
34:47
all that with coaching with me so there’s an option to get it various different ways depending how deep you
34:54
want to go but the um the spoon bending and
35:00
the and the luck at the casino and Growing Seeds that’s almost it’s almost
35:06
incidental to where you’re trying to get people to go though isn’t it it’s it’s it’s more the experience of and you can
35:13
fill in the blank I would say you know trying to open your heart open your field you tell
35:18
me yeah uh bottom line I think these are all different excuses to love each other
35:25
in different ways okay and love yourself um within that
35:32
um and I’m going to explain that a little bit more most of the things you see out
35:38
there are affecting matter with your mind and and visualization for manifesting and and even in the
35:45
psychokinesis like the metal bending I don’t think that’s very very accurate I think that’s more like the mind is the
35:52
steering wheel of a car it just sets direction of intention the car goes nowhere without about
35:58
gas the best gas we found for this and for life is unconditional love so having
36:04
that flowing plus intention is when you get these quote Miracle results uh and
36:10
that’s where where I’m trying to go is to use these as feedback devices because in life if somebody
36:17
thought Negative they could think negatively for six weeks before they got a cold or some reflection of that
36:24
negativity if they wanted a soulmate they could pray for the soulmate and
36:29
visualize for a year and it may take even longer than that for that to come in for everything to arrange in perfect
36:37
ESS for the universe to have that happen so you could get discouraged and when
36:43
we’re at the dice table within seconds we get rewarded for being in unconditional love connected to Spirit
36:50
grounded to the Earth Here and Now in the present moment rather than worried about past or future and if we go into
36:57
greed and ego we get punished by withdrawal of money within seconds a very quick training to a more
37:04
enlightened way of living I thought you were gonna tell me you get punished by the casino staff who’s like what are you
37:09
people doing at our dice table no no they they uh they they they watch us and
37:15
they filmed us and whatever but they’re not too worried about us because we’re not trying to make a killing we’re
37:20
betting small amounts and uh say you were you’re in a bed medal today uh
37:28
and the person first tries by gee I’m afraid I won’t be able to do it so fear
37:35
is in the way it’s not going to happen then underneath that is I’m afraid I will be able to do it and if I do it it
37:41
changes my whole concept of reality and all my other beliefs and my sense of power and responsibility in my own life
37:48
and how the universe works so there’s a little bit of fear there too so there’s
37:53
a fear of not doing it or doing it and all that if we gentle that out um the
38:01
first thing people will usually try to do is great effort you know justy like trying to lift the foundation of a house
38:07
and it doesn’t work and so then they have to figure a way to project power without effort and uh people in sports
38:16
know how to do that you know flow States um people that are trained uh you know
38:23
there’s a 10,000 hour rule I don’t know if it’s really a rule but like the Beatles played in clubs around Europe
38:30
before they ever quote became famous by the time they became famous they were at ease with their instrument so um we’re
38:38
trying to teach the the instrument of the body if you will in the mind and the spirit so you know the notes enough well
38:46
enough that you can make music that you couldn’t make before if you will in this case it’s metal bending in another case
38:53
it might be um healing a scratch that you know your cat scratch on your your arm within 5 minutes whatever it might
39:00
be it’s an application of uh Power that we’re not taught in grade school or high
39:07
school or college but is a natural part of our abilities in my opinion does that
39:12
make sense it does it does and I I did want to I I almost feel this is evil
39:18
when you read parts of people’s books back to them sometimes but I’m going to do that okay so um you had said in Vegas
39:26
now this is one of your books in addition to liquid luck that is kind of similar um inner Vegas shows you how to
39:32
apply the energy of the heart to create health and good fortune and how to tame the dragons you may encounter along the
39:39
way I want to talk about the dragons sure so so I’m using the word Dragon for
39:47
fear to me love has no opposite we’ve been talking about love being the energy
39:52
so hate is not the opposite but fear can Cloud love um
39:58
very very cloudy if you will and fear used broadly that would name could be
40:03
cynicism boredom confusion anger like if somebody cuts you off in traffic you
40:09
know the first reaction you’re aware of is anger maybe but right before that was fear that you’re going to be hurt or
40:15
your car was going to be dented so we’re using fear very broadly okay
40:21
um and uh that’s the main challenge is to kind of reduce the
40:27
fear uh and it doesn’t work like some systems try to kill ego you can’t kill
40:34
ego but you can soften it and with that it tends to soften the fears one of the
40:40
big ways like in liquid luck that meditation we mentioned we move into things like happiness gratitude feelings
40:48
of abundance that tends heart gets us out of ego and then we think of things
40:55
where we feel compassion and begin to feel fortunate and then with all of that you might have better
41:01
luck with the lottery ticket so it’s uh it’s a lot of working with reducing fear
41:08
does that help yes question it does I mean I no it’s a diff that’s I think
41:14
this is the most difficult part of the whole process of and also just of being you know when we’re talking about being
41:19
in Carnet um and I know that there are certain schools that just try to replace
41:26
the dragon with gra attitude if you just focus on gratitude which works to some extent um the other thing I did want to
41:33
ask about though is where self-esteem fits into this equation or
41:38
okay or self okay so I’m gonna go back a little bit on the dragons I first when I
41:43
went to Vegas I would find I’m afraid of doing too well and the casino will ban me I’m afraid of not doing well and
41:49
losing my money those would be examples of dragons Okay um and meeting fear with
41:56
courage can work gratitude can work but I found it was easier to melt Fear With Love if I go into love uh which might be
42:04
thinking of my at this point my mom say when I’m at a slot machine or my brother’s people that are on the other
42:11
side I just uh think how much I love them and feel the flow of energy uh like
42:16
we’re in connection and spirit and then once a while say Okay M give me a jackpot or something and pull the handle
42:23
or press the button nowadays and boom the jackpot so that’s what’s going on there esteem
42:31
in general it’s self-concept I would say more than
42:37
self-esteem um so when Ro Institute did an exercise a
42:43
long time ago for to help with golf for people and people started they focused
42:49
in the Imaging and the meditation to drive a long distance and people started driving incredibly but then 70
42:57
putt they had seven putt a whole because their their impression was that they were an 80s golfer a ’90s golfer ’70s
43:05
golfer so that was their self-concept and that’s what you hit um so as I
43:11
started doing real well in Vegas for example the cruise would say Here Comes Mr Lucky and I would say I’m not lucky
43:19
because in my family I was youngest of four boys my my folks had more money
43:24
they were easier on me raising me than my brothers so my brothers would say he’s the lucky one and I say I’m not
43:31
lucky so my self-concept is I earned everything by hard work it was not luck
43:38
and so if you have a concept like that it’s hard for Fortune to bless you um
43:44
yeah because you have to feel you could receive whether you’ve worked for it or not yeah and and say you did well and
43:49
and if but somebody said looked at you said oh you’re just lucky that would be you didn’t deserve it you didn’t put in
43:56
all that effort so Concepts get to be very important there was a guy he wanted
44:02
a job I’m going to try to make this a quick story not have any luck and I said what do you really want and he said a
44:08
job about two months a year in beautiful weather and we had him put that out of
44:15
meditation and he got an advertising boat at the ocean in the Northeast shore
44:20
of United States and uh pretty girl would drive the boat up and down the
44:26
beach Co cola have one side local restaurant the other by the end of the year he had three boats on Alexus and
44:33
this the season was two months long but for most people as soon as you say
44:38
job only two months a year they laugh because for them 60 hours a week 50
44:45
weeks a year equals job so that would be concept there I’ll give you another big
44:52
concept many of the people come to Monro if I put said show of hands how many of you you are Seekers of wisdom Seekers of
44:59
spiritual knowledge all the hands go up I say wouldn’t you rather be a finder
45:04
it’s a different energy okay and and so we can have things that feel really good inside like
45:11
I’m a Seeker I’m you know I’m on a righteous path yet that could get in the
45:17
way of being a finder is that making sense yes it does yes it does so we deal
45:22
with those kinds of things in the home study course in the MC squar program in the three-hour spoon bending Workshop
45:30
they they try to transcend that quickly to get you all excited to show you yes you can do it same kind of the liquid
45:37
luck meditation I do we try to transcend all the issues humans can have and just
45:44
have such a vivid image of having this magic liquid you can drink and have luck
45:50
that you can transcend all that fear and doubt and self-concept issues uh for
45:56
temporarily enough to get a taste of what’s possible so that’s why we do
46:01
that you also um think that that I don’t
46:07
want to say these phenomena but these experiences should be measurable and repeatable they should be we should be
46:14
able to have some harder what people would call harder s science what do you have any idea of like what would be the
46:21
perfect like a really solid experiment like how would you design it how big
46:27
would your group be what would you do
46:32
um yeah I do I do like the idea that we can verify so because you can trick
46:37
yourself you know uh in in ways uh so um
46:43
one one that I like I just is coming to mind that’s quite elegant recently is in
46:48
science we call it fourway double blind nobody knows who’s the experiment group
46:54
and who’s the control group and within that we can take vials of liquid and put
47:02
bacteria in the vial and and so in a vial you might have
47:07
a 100 million bacteria in one vial all right think because bacteria are tiny
47:13
and you can put an antibiotic in there that we know is proven to kill
47:18
95% of the bacteria within 15 minutes let’s say all
47:23
right and then we can have another vial that no knows which is which that energy
47:30
healers have prayed over to protect the vial to protect those bacteria
47:35
inside and then other people who are don’t know which is which will measure
47:40
and in that vial that’s had the protection maybe 90% of the bacteria
47:46
survive for 15 minutes instead of 90% are killed the reason why that’s elegant
47:51
is there’s no placebo effect there’s no people involved you know in powers of
47:57
suggestion and there’s with metal bending for example it’s very messy you
48:03
know the accusation can be I pre- soften the metal I’m using closeand magician
48:09
work I’m you know super strong I went into some kind of hypnotic State like a
48:15
woman lifting a car off a child as if that explains anything but you know
48:20
they’ll come up with weird explanations that bacteria study I just mentioned is
48:25
is very repeated then somebody else can do it in their lab in another lab across the country um and so we look for things
48:34
like that has it been done this experiment or is this something has it been done what you just described done
48:40
and has been done successfully um the ones I’ve participated in they’ll put like 120
48:48
lead EG on my head um so they’re measuring brain wave patterns and they
48:54
will say affect this gray box that has sensors in it for 48 seconds and then
48:59
let 48 seconds rest 48 seconds use the psychokinesis through 100 trials and
49:07
those will come out significant statistically that that the box was different when you’re trying to affect
49:13
it um and and you and in the MC squar program we mentioned we have over a
49:19
decade of data showing groups do that and and accumulate data to statistical
49:25
significance level and that’s a little nicer than just accepting somebody’s word for
49:33
it it get spooky though because if the experiment believes it’s possible it’s more likely that it’ll be a positive
49:40
result and if the experiment believes this can’t can’t possibly work it won’t
49:46
most times so there are experiment effects even in the purest quote of
49:51
science um that that we’re learning about you know in physics they talk
49:57
about the observer effect yeah you also um had some overlap
50:03
with the Department of perceptual studies at UVA yes they I know they do a
50:08
lot of research what did you do with them so that one with 48 seconds on and off I just mentioned was at UVA
50:15
University of Virginia uh division of perceptual studies they’re the ones that
50:21
have also come up to mroe Institute and gathered data for over a decade on the m
50:26
C squ program they have a talented subjects area where they um will bring
50:32
people in who have a reputation of being great healers or what have you uh their
50:39
one of their staff members is also a co-director of research at Monroe Institute and so they have like a copper
50:47
room it’s all copper with shielding and they can measure people’s electrical field and they’ll see higher fields on
50:54
people who are able project energy well um and they coordinate with other
51:01
organizations Ry Institute they used to be with North Carolina University it’s
51:07
separate now uh they have a room where it’s completely dark to the place where
51:13
you could count just a few photons in the room when nobody’s there when a human comes in there’s more photons and
51:20
with a Healer comes in and you say make the room light you know it explodes in light and in terms of what
51:27
they can measure in terms of how many photons so we’re we’re trying to get some objective quod data rather than
51:35
just uh people’s feelings like gee I think I talked to Grandma last night or
51:40
whatever that may well have great validity for the individual and it may be 100% true but it’s hard to replicate
51:48
in the lab yeah I know I have a lot of relatives my dad and my sister and just
51:55
tons of aunts and uncles who are deceased and I had had when my
52:01
grandparents died I I had experiences but I had to say to myself I don’t know if this is real because I want it to be
52:09
you know I want my heart’s desire and then I had a couple one of them was just a couple years ago where my aunt had
52:17
died but I didn’t know it and I had a dream with my father and my sister and my uncle who had died just a month
52:23
before and they were with my aunt who was doing what she would do whenever she would come to our house she always came
52:29
with little goodie bags and things like that and you couldn’t do anything until you dealt with her like she couldn’t
52:35
settle until you took the oldtime magazines and the little casserole she made and in this dream she was doing
52:41
that and my Uncle George looked at me and she said ah she’s okay because she was just unpacking and I woke up in the morning and I said to my mom I said I
52:47
think Aunt Mary’s gone because she was with all our dead relatives and we and we got the call a day and a half later
52:53
that was one of the few experiences that I could say that wasn’t just me because I wanted it that was something you might
53:01
have not wanted the exact you would have wanted the exact opposite yes and and there’s a part where we can lie to
53:07
ourselves very easily when we when our emotions are in a certain place so yeah
53:12
I think the research portion is so important I and just backing up I always think of um the department of perceptual
53:19
studies as doing near-death work that I’d love to talk to them about but that’s what I think of them doing I didn’t realize they they got going
53:25
initially with three Incarnation work uh and have I think 4,000 at least
53:30
documented cases of reincarnation they they were formed by a grant to uh get
53:37
some of that going but they do have uh they broaden out into this area of
53:42
studying energy healing and psychokinesis and and those kind of
53:47
things um maybe not as much telepathy as Institute of noetic science does and
53:54
some other organizations but they they have Bren but you know even with your
53:59
your aunt and many people have that experience they’ll you know even not in a dream they’re walking and all of a
54:05
sudden they know a relative died Skeptics will say you psychically picked
54:11
up that their health was beginning to fail or whatever they will say oh you
54:17
just telepathically picked up something from somebody that knew she was dead
54:23
that’s not much of a explanation because that involves
54:28
psychic functioning as well but they will try their hardest to to not say uh
54:34
this is proof of physical death um or proof of communication uh through the
54:40
veil um you know the interesting thing about Lifeline the program up in Monroe
54:45
it’s been going two decades now is we’ll get some things that are pretty darn
54:51
verifiable where the you know Aunt Melly will die or whatever and she’ll say you
54:56
know look onto the fourth floorboard in this house in the attic and there’s this box and inside the box is this letter
55:03
that explains something that I have to tell somebody and uh they’ll go and they’ll find the letter things that
55:09
would be hard to make up yeah yeah okay Joe are you ready for the lightning
55:15
round a final question I didn’t know there was going to be one I’m GNA take a sip of water before a lightning reset me
55:21
too
55:27
okay okay um so first question is what do you feel what in your view is a
55:34
well-lived life this body this Incarnation I like Emerson’s uh definition of leaving the
55:42
place a little better than when you came that’s lovely what do you suspect is the true
55:49
nature of reality I think if you look at protons
55:54
and neutrons elect and they break down into quirks and then they break down
55:59
best we know into information packets and um and all at the very base of all
56:06
of that it looks like it’s Consciousness and I think Consciousness is love so I’d say the love is the ground of
56:14
reality okay how do you feel people can better be engaged with their Consciousness or
56:23
love we know a lot of people are just going to work to pay attention to things like the beauty of nature beauty of
56:29
Music beauty of how people care for each other and not listen to Broadcast News
56:35
if you will and a lot of hype and stories that are fear generating and and
56:40
that’s the external looking and inside I think meditation has a good place um as
56:48
ability if the mind quiets that we begin to see we are more than our physical bodies our ego minds and what have you
56:55
so you you have to almost or you’re invited to create a window into more of
57:02
who you are before you have something like a heart attack that rearranges all your values or a near-death experience
57:09
or or who knows what um you can get to the kinds of wisdoms and insights people
57:15
have under crisis like that through something like a good meditation regime
57:21
and I will make a commercial meditation is not always la la feel good
57:26
relax because as you get more sensitive to yourself you might realize you might need to go through a divorce or you
57:33
might need to change something ra radical in the marriage that you’re scared to bring up or you might need to
57:40
have a conversation with your boss or your child that you don’t want to have or that the job is no fun anymore you
57:48
know even though it has gold in their silver handcuffs to it in terms of what you get paid so meditation can bring up
57:55
awareness of things that are not comfortable but if you make those changes most times people have an even
58:03
Fuller life that was a long answer I’m sorry it has to be the secrets to life
58:10
Joe they have to be piffy yeah be two words 42 or 43 what’s that yeah so when
58:19
you die is there anything you hope to have
58:24
answered or to to find out I’m actually hoping
58:31
to get confirmation of feelings I’ve had before Life coming in when I’ve gotten
58:37
in touch with that in meditation of deep deep knowing that all
58:42
is in right order that at some level Beyond Good and Evil black and white
58:48
wrong and right there’s a place where you know everything is praising everything so uh that’s where I will aim
58:55
for because I I’ve had a taste of that and I think that is the actual that
59:01
reality is a little realer it’s paradoxical there’s a book from middle Egyptian times called the
59:09
cabilan and and the first truth is everything is a dream second is everything is real third is biggest
59:15
mistake you can make is deciding one of those statements is truer than the other so there’s a paradoxical nature so you
59:23
can’t say you know that the pain and suffering here are not real but my
59:28
brother’s feeling and many people when I talk to them on the other side is lives here are like a blink of an eye over
59:34
there and so they say don’t sweat the small stuff so much they know that while you’re living it it can seem agonizingly
59:42
slow if you’re in the middle of a of a dental filling and the novocaine hasn’t
59:48
taken effect but from over their perspective even 20 years of depression
59:53
or whatever is like a blink of the eye so um I I hope to find
1:00:01
um I know love is real and I hope to just find that I can embibe in it um
1:00:09
well once I’m I have dropped the physical and I and I think that’ll be the
1:00:17
case okay and this is a haale little question compared to that one but where
1:00:23
but it’s important where can people find you and the good that you’re doing I
1:00:28
have a website believe it or not I’m the only person in the world to have discovered that uh and it’s www dot and
1:00:37
then the word sync Sy YN C like synchronize Sy YN C and then the word
1:00:43
creation c a t o n so s y NC c a t
1:00:49
n.com and um there there’s a lot of free articles about energy healing
1:00:55
psychokinesis is the things we’re talking about and then um a lot of individual meditations on download as
1:01:02
well as that home study course um if person Googles if it’s easier to
1:01:08
remember liquid luck that’s one probably my most uh bestselling book in
1:01:15
meditation so uh if you Google liquid luck you’ll find me as well okay and any
1:01:22
last messages for the audience today um I think I’m going to end with one of
1:01:28
my favorite sayings um and I even have it on the wall I can look at and that is fear is
1:01:36
expensive love is priceless Choose Wisely so thank you fear is expensive
1:01:42
and we’re we’re coming on an election we’re coming on issues of climate and whatever that people have very different
1:01:49
points of view on it but it can generate a lot of fear and if we make decisions
1:01:54
out of fear um they’re not going to be as high quality as if we make them out of love
1:02:00
so um I I’ll stick with that as my last words that’s beautiful that’s lovely oh
1:02:07
thank you thank you so much for being with me today sure bye bye bye
1:02:12
bye thanks for watching click to join us on another journey and don’t forget to
1:02:17
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1010 Tammy Young