0:00
if you’re not self-aware if you don’t understand who you are on a fundamental level outside of like the the state and
0:07
I don’t mean like the state is in like the state of 50 states I’m talking about like the government the state if you
0:12
don’t know who you are outside of State outside of religious Faith outside of um
0:19
uh your family lineage outside of your sexual orientation your gender or the
0:26
race that you were born into if you don’t know who you are in a fundamental level you’re going to have nothing but
0:32
institutions and and and Trends telling you who to be how to be and what to be
0:39
your entire life um so to me self-awareness and awareness in general
0:44
is the only game in town
0:53
[Music]
1:02
I’d like to welcome to the journeying soul Thomas Brown how are you doing Thomas let’s do this okay so I’m just
1:11
going to start with the basics here your brother died by suicide in 2001 when you
1:18
were in your mid 20s yeah 24 and in 2012 you went on a cross country bike
1:26
ride to raise awareness pay tribute spread marks ashes your brother’s ashes
1:33
yeah and um you wrote this really great book and I have to tell you Thomas I
1:41
really I really liked your book I mean you have a good voice and it’s well told also you and I we both appreciate our
1:48
Joseph Campbell and hero with a thousand faces and you structured your book you structured your your book
1:56
around that the same way I took I made a film called the grief anoth and sort of I structured it around that and I’m
2:01
actually working on the book version of that the Greek mon that is amazing so
2:07
you have you have a short film that you made like like a documentary I made this my sister died in 2013 let’s promote my
2:14
work so let’s do it so I um my sister died in 2013 and
2:21
the next year um I started you know making a documentary about grief based
2:27
on my experiences going to a bement group and I realized that the that
2:33
grieving follows like it’s not it’s not a straight line it’s more of a spiral trip because and you probably know this
2:40
like things that you process can get triggered and you have to process them again or just things roll around again
2:46
so um yeah I had done a film about that and then I had also done
2:52
some films to help people who wanted to run bereavement groups you’re gonna have to you’re gonna have to send me a link
2:58
I’d love to like check it out I don’t know if it’s like a great appropriate for you now but sure you can check it out i’ like to see where you were at in
3:05
that in that time in which you made it and then uh compare and contrast it to your book when that comes out okay
3:13
sure you’ll just have to let send me a link when your book is out so I can get that because I like to I like to support
3:20
artists thank you yes you do that comes across in your book so anyway the the
3:27
place I wanted to start with you is not necessarily talking about grief though I think that I love again I love your book
3:35
and I love and I didn’t even say the title 2012 a Bicycle Odyssey um yeah and
3:42
I loved that I I loved how you did it a lot of people who have a loss um you know the sort of the end
3:49
stage of of grieving is that part where you’re making meaning somehow and if
3:55
you’re a creative person you make a movie you you write a book you do you do something like that
4:02
and I again I mean I read your book and I was like ah this should probably be a
4:08
movie you know what I mean one of the you know I’ve had that thought too but I want it to be
4:14
partially animated one of my favorite movies of all time is Pink Floyd The Wall and I I think that there’s enough
4:21
there’s enough um you know ethereal scenes that take place in in the in the
4:28
book you could probably age attest to that it would be okay to have some animated scenes in the in a film I’m not
4:37
with you on that Thomas I disagree I think like yes I see this as more of an Oscar bait book that some actor in his
4:44
20s or 30s you know 30s is when it happened for you you know takes it and
4:50
and does it and I mean the thing about it though my first job out of college
4:56
all right we’re just going to chat Thomas because now I’m yapping a lot which but but my first job at a college was
5:02
working in development at um like literary development at William Morris it was like this little Department that
5:07
service the bankable clients like we would hunt out books for them um to to
5:13
to to take to the studios to make and like I said I was like oh this is a perfect thing for some actor
5:20
who’s looking for that Trophy and the only thing is though when your book is adapted you might not recognize it what
5:28
I did want to start with with you though is that you seem to understand and it comes
5:34
through in your book and it also was part of your grieving that Consciousness you kind of talk about it
5:40
as self-awareness is sort of the whole ball of wax do I have this right yeah to me it’s the only game in
5:48
town like like cool like I don’t I don’t like to meet mean to poo poo uh religion
5:53
I have found more respect for religion through Joseph Campbell um like I talk about in the
6:00
book how I walked across the country with a group of progressive Christians back in 2006 uh six years before the
6:07
bike ride and I had a very negative opinion of of Christians a year just a year before that walk um and Joseph
6:14
Campbell’s really open my eyes up to find the Poetry in faith but that all
6:20
being said if you’re not self-aware if you don’t understand who you are on a fundamental level outside of like the
6:28
the state and I mean like the state is in like the state of 50 states I’m talking about like the government the state if you don’t know who you are
6:35
outside of State outside of religious Faith outside of um uh your family
6:42
lineage outside of your sexual orientation your gender or the race that
6:49
you were born into if you don’t know who you are on a fundamental level you’re going to have nothing but institutions
6:55
and and and Trends telling you who to be how to be and what to be your entire
7:02
life um so to me self-awareness and awareness in general is the only game in
7:08
town yeah I mean I would just agree with you in the sense that um you know your
7:15
your Consciousness is everything that’s the thing that if anything came with you before you incarnated in this body and
7:20
anything goes with you after that’s what it is so try to and figure out what it is I
7:27
could be pretty good at alienating people and if there’s other anybody that’s listening to this that also
7:32
excels at alienating people there’s one person you can’t alienate and that’s
7:38
yourself you’re stuck with you from Cradle to grave so you better learn how to uh get in touch with who you are and
7:45
all that you are but you know that that is a struggle for people that a lot of people have
7:51
they don’t want to be alone with their own thoughts they don’t want to be they
7:56
don’t they’re trying to trust themselves up you in a million Society Society has
8:02
never really uh created um a standard for that for us
8:08
you know like like going going in in school like there’s nothing that really like helps you nurtures your your
8:15
curiosity for your own self-awareness or for awareness it’s not it’s not part of the system in which we live and I don’t
8:22
want to get into like the house or wise or if that’s a conspiracy or nefarious Behavior or if it’s negligence but it’s
8:28
just it just is we don’t have that like usually you know self-awareness is like
8:34
any other skill set Sometimes some people are born they can pick up a pen and they could write or they could sit
8:39
down at a piano and they can just play and it’s just they have this innate fundamental skill set self-awareness is
8:46
like that too but you could also grow cultivate and expand your selfawareness
8:51
through a practice there’s probably other ways that we can like start a journey of
8:58
self-discovery but the two primary spot the the the two areas where I find it
9:03
most profound where it does happen is it either you You’ suffered some type of
9:09
trauma you know and you you f you wind up in therapy or in some type of like
9:15
support group or maybe even a yoga class is where it starts with you and then you go down this Rabbit Hole of
9:22
self-discovery the other the other uh road is man I need to get I needed a
9:30
Humanities class for my for my degree so
9:36
you you just wander or stumble into a mythology class or a a philosophy class
9:41
and then boom your mind is blown after a semester and that sends you down a path
9:47
of self-discovery so I mean th that’s pretty much like the two major pillars
9:53
in our society today that will lead somebody on a journey of self-discovery if they don’t already
9:59
have that innate desire within them and so it’s just that’s the reason why people don’t like to sit with their with
10:05
their thoughts is because we’ve never been given the opportunity as small people when we’re you know Toddlers and
10:12
and and adolescents to really go on that Journey it’s never been encouraged it’s
10:17
never been nurtured it’s never the idea of it was never even brought to our
10:23
attention and that’s probably because most of the people that are teaching us haven’t gone on that Adventure either
10:29
you know so people can’t teach what they don’t have so yeah that’s absolutely true do you meditate yes yes it was it’s
10:38
not you know i’ I’ve gotten to the point too where like I just I just need some silence but like I have alarm that goes
10:45
off a couple times a day on my phone and it just says be quiet you know so like
10:52
I’ll just sit down I I I’m always stimulated with stuff I love music I love listening to to podast
10:59
and and lectures and stuff and sometimes I just have to turn it off you know I’ll keep the earbuds in my ear because that
11:06
also is like once there’s no sound in there it’s like an extra layer of like
11:11
of of keeping stimulation out and I’ll just sit there you know for five minutes 10 minutes it’s just like a reminder to
11:18
kind of like breathe and and sit down um uh to me that just like helps me get in
11:25
touch with my body and where my body is at because even if I don’t know
11:32
um what is stressing me out if my my mind’s usually I don’t know how other people are but like my mind is always
11:39
playing ketchup my mind is designed to protect me from stressors U my body is
11:45
going to tell me when I’m stressed out way before my my brain is my brain is
11:51
still calculating so right so that’s one of the reasons like I’ll just I’ll just take a minute I’ll be silent and I’ll
11:57
just breathe and I’ll just like get into my body and I’ll be like oh that’s tense that spot that spot is tense like what’s
12:04
that about um and that usually like helps me even like when I when I’m
12:10
dealing with other people it’s usually my body is going to be like I don’t like this person where like my brain’s trying to
12:16
negotiate what’s happening and like inter while I’m interacting and my body will be like nah this isn’t doing it for
12:23
[Laughter] me yeah so to your your question yes do
12:29
meditate yes because I talk to a lot of people you know on my show I mean there’s the heel loss connect with
12:37
Spirit manifest a new life however that is and I talk to a lot of mediums and
12:44
psychics and um it’s it’s sort of there’s been uh everybody seems to be
12:50
meditating which is great but there’s kind of two different schools of doing it there’s there’s the some people have
12:55
the practice where they’re just clearing their mind you know trying to quiet it
13:00
down taking the thoughts and going nope you’re very professional you’re good I
13:07
got a degree from NYU in film they teach you how to knock those mics over
13:12
anyway that’s awesome so you know some some people they it’s it’s you know clearing your mind you know that’s just
13:19
a thought letting it pass that’s just a thought letting it pass and other people it’s the clearing their mind so they can then open up to
13:27
receive something from Spirit you know how especially the mediums obviously so
13:33
um you know I was curious how how you were practicing everybody’s practice is a little bit different it’s funny I’m
13:38
like you also I put things in my body I’m not always aware of how I’m feeling till my body says something about it
13:43
which is so like you know you get to be middle-aged and you’re like can I not do better than
13:49
that yeah I think like I I’m I I’m of two minds of that because I am like uh
13:55
even though I haven’t done it in 14 years I’m a I’m a proponent of psychedelic use I wanted to ask you
14:02
about this yes um I I haven’t done it long I feel like a really deep um you
14:09
know self-awareness and awareness um practice is its own type of like
14:15
psychedelic experience um it just it’s not as
14:22
compacted in an 8 hour period like when you take mushrooms or IO Oscar or something like that like I have
14:27
psychedelic experiences all time that have nothing to do with like um
14:33
geometric patterns and pretty colors um so but like I I I just feel like the
14:39
feeling that I could have on a psychedelic experience of like Enlightenment happens I’m not too into
14:45
anymore about trying to connect to some Divine Source um I feel like as an
14:51
artist we’re already we already have one foot in that space creative people people who who who intentionally take on
15:00
um or have the need like for me to write isn’t about like something that I’m
15:05
going to do to like make money it would be great if I could make money off off writing books but it’s more of like food
15:12
water um air like if I don’t do it if I eliminate any type of creative Outlet I
15:19
will die I will wither and die so and to
15:24
me like that that part of my being is like one foot into the Divine like is is
15:31
like dipping your toes into the pool of divinity um I am usually in plac like I
15:40
I’m constantly having these like weird you know thoughts and I write them down all the time e either in a notepad that
15:47
I carry with me or in my phone and then I’ll just like transfer it and like sometimes those will just be thoughts
15:54
that like I have for you know I don’t even know what I’ll use it for maybe it’ll bring it up in a podcast maybe
16:00
I’ll it’ll go into a book but um I’m constantly observing and open to any
16:06
type of uh creative influence that can uh that I
16:12
can use later in in life so um to me like instead of connecting to like some
16:18
Cosmic force or Spirits or anything like that like I’m just trying to have a connection with uh a force of creation
16:29
Spirit by a different name yeah yeah I would say because what’s interesting is like you’re your your
16:38
um attachment your engagement with being creative is very similar to some of the
16:46
psychics and mediums I talk to in the sense that for them they have to develop a symbolic
16:54
language you know it’s not like when they connect with Spirit especially if they’re giving message to somebody else
17:00
that it just comes in in a sense here they just read it out like it’s written down for them it’s a symbolic language
17:06
and you as a creative person are also trying to capture a story and you’re
17:11
going through your day capturing your own symbols to communicate it’s a very it’s
17:17
not dissimilar so it’s like language you know what I mean like you just what language do you
17:25
speak it’s still language I guess that’s the way I would like describe it so yeah
17:30
I I I agree with you there so what do you think psychedelics did for you because I’m guessing were you I mean
17:36
were you which came first the psychedelics or
17:43
the were you sort of spiritually creative o creatively open or did they I
17:48
was always I always kind of had like a a create I didn’t I always had like I always knew I
17:54
was a creative person I always had excuse me a wild imagination M it wasn’t
18:00
nurtured a lot um I had to like my parents for from a small town in
18:09
Kansas uh very simpleminded people and I don’t mean that in a negative way they
18:14
just when I say simple like technology and and
18:20
culture wasn’t something like they’re very meat and potatoes type of people um
18:25
coming from a small small town in and then moving to Phoenix and raising uh
18:32
two boys as like technology was just continuing to like grow and grow and grow so like my dad knew Sports you know
18:41
the creative stuff just like wasn’t there so it wasn’t really nurtured so I just kind of like I you know did some
18:48
some video production in high school and then did was in and out of like film school when after After High School um I
18:57
think like there was an explosion like the first time I did LSD um and how old were
19:05
you 21 was the first time that I did it and it wasn’t in any type of like sanctioned
19:13
ceremony ritual it was just a street drug and you know and and I and my mind
19:19
was just blown like I just it’s it’s I just saw a a different way to look at
19:27
life um and and and I didn’t even know what that meant I just knew it was different like everything that everybody
19:34
had ever told me about what life and what existence is I don’t know why they’re wrong but there’s something a
19:40
skew there’s something there’s a there’s I just saw the curtain you know I didn’t
19:47
see behind the curtain but up until that point I didn’t even know a curtain existed so you know I’m like there’s a
19:53
curtain over there what is go why why um
19:59
and maybe I saw some eyes peeking over it not literally but that’s more of like a metaphorical feeling and you know I I
20:06
really had to like I the biggest thing with my own mental health is that I was
20:12
extremely codependent so I had all you discuss that in the book you I had all
20:17
these dreams and aspirations but I latched on to people um cuz there was this fake
20:26
confidence that they had that I I just was like you you know what’s going on
20:32
right I guess I’ll hang out with you and um it was I would never change the path
20:39
and the trajectory that I that I’ve taken but it definitely uh slowed my
20:44
progress down um and you know I finally a few years after my brother died I I
20:50
did get to the point where like I can’t be around these people I the need to
20:56
create was was overwhelming me and I needed to break away and uh I finally
21:03
did and um you know there was a lot of like uh Journeys psychedelic Journeys in
21:11
between those that also helped inspire me and that still fuel me uh to this day
21:17
so um it wasn’t until really that I I
21:23
met like a therapist that was able to help me navigate my codependency and help me and she was wasn’t against my
21:29
psychedelic use I didn’t do it all the time um now this is the one you refer to in the book and I’m forgetting her name
21:36
it’s the Jay Kim I’m a Jim kimim it’s right next they’re right NE K
21:43
is right next to Jay thank you um yeah yeah so she was
21:48
very she was very nurturing with like that idea she’s you know she never used this there’s a phrase that I learned
21:55
much further after after Kim but it was pretty much what she was saying to me
22:00
when it came to psychedelic use and the saying I forgot who says it but I heard it from Mark Marin uh he was quoting
22:06
somebody else the mind is not a boomerang you know it like when you if
22:13
you throw it super far it will not come back so she was always like very like
22:19
you know she’s like that’s you know take your time don’t don’t don’t get too radical out there let’s process things
22:25
let’s talk about things that you experience and I think that that was like super helpful and like the
22:31
experience the last psychedelic experience that I had like under the under the use of a substance was 14
22:38
years ago and um and it was similar to dreams
22:44
that I had after my brother died this part I this part about this I can’t
22:50
remember if I even there’s so much stuff that hit The Cutting Room floor and I’ve gone over and over this book you think
22:55
that I would remember if this part was in it you had a very you D write about had a very scary dream like out of
23:01
Dante’s Inferno where your brother yeah featuring you know your brother in there so yeah no but like the dream that I had
23:08
I mentioned I think like in the in the prologue was a dream that I had almost every single night it had nothing to do
23:14
with my brother but it was about like the ventr truvian man and seeing this this being like and the brighter there
23:22
was two of them side by side and like the bright one was able to manipulate
23:27
binary code that was surrounding it where the dim one was being overrun by
23:33
the binary code and being changed by it and that was a dream that I had every single night until I started dating uh I
23:39
got into a toxic relationship but like when I did my last psychedelic experience I was up in Mingus Mountain
23:46
which is in between preset and Jerome Arizona up in uh near Northern Arizona
23:53
uh I was supposed to be the sitter I was supposed to just like I had I had two of
23:58
my buddies I did like a sea salt like circle around our campsite you know that
24:04
gave them enough privacy if they had to go to the bathroom um and I was just like I’m going to eat this small little
24:10
stem and cap of a mushroom and I’m just going to like let my eyes open up a
24:16
little bit see a little bit more at night and I I I my Consciousness flew
24:22
into the fire and I heard this beautiful Symphony like that nothing
24:29
I’ve ever heard before and I saw the binary code again but there was no vent
24:34
truvian man it was just kind of like it was like uh my own DNA was kind of like
24:40
swirling like like kind of like sea moss you know like at the bottom of the of the ocean floor just kind of like
24:47
swaying back and forth and it was like either knocking ones and zeros away and then absorbing other ones and I like
24:54
like that that was kind of something that
24:59
uh that I would say was also part of uh inspiration for the bike ride um because
25:06
when I had this last psychedelic experience it took place two months after the conversation I had with Zach
25:13
about doing a bike ride um so it was and for people listening Zach is the guy that you did the ride with yeah yeah
25:20
Zack is the is a he lost his brother to Suicide as well and he was the first
25:26
person I had met out out side of my own experience of somebody who lost somebody to Suicide so it was just like and that
25:34
like and and that along with the dreams I was just psychedelics is something that I I
25:41
I Adore I’m a major proponent for um I I
25:47
I think that like even though it’s not addictive that people can get addicted to the process of healing and so I see
25:54
people like going back all the like every weekend to do like I ASA and I’m just like are you processing like like
26:02
like you you’re able to like process within like hey I’m not one to judge we all have our own speed limits you know
26:09
what I mean we all have our own learning curves and I’m a turtle so maybe you’re just faster than me but I just don’t see
26:16
how people process in six days also in talking I’m sorry in
26:22
talking about you know when going back to Joseph Campbell you know he would often talk about uh
26:29
you know the it’s not so much in in in um hero with a thousand faces but in some of his other work you know tribal
26:34
cultures engaging in rituals to you know raise energy of the group to invite
26:40
something in to shift something and that you know it’s a luminous experience it’s
26:45
not and exactly if you need to go do that every day did it work the first time or the
26:51
third time you know it’s supposed to be something you take back to the mundane World um so yeah if you’re not if you’re
26:58
not staying in the mundane World enough then and that’s why and and that’s where
27:04
like you know like the biggest thing that I’ve taken from like Kim was my ultimate processor
27:12
you know I’ve already had all these like experiences psychedelics experiences
27:17
dream experiences and Kim was like the person that like helped me process everything and gave me the tools to
27:24
process as well uh for myself and like to me like understanding that like awareness
27:32
expanding awareness and and and cultivating your own self awareness is something that’s so void from our first
27:39
world society that like I don’t feel like I need to go any deeper like this
27:45
is a message that whether I’m I’m writing a a non-fiction book or a
27:51
fictional story I can still bring that message that’s going to be my message in
27:56
any type of story The importance I mean that’s all like that that’s what good stories are really about is that like
28:03
you have a hero and they leave their mundane World they go into this extraordinary World they learn their
28:10
limits they learn how to break through their limits and they become a completely different person uh a better
28:16
person hopefully for them not only for themselves but for their circle of influence um but I want to be more
28:24
obnoxiously intentional about it you know stories are kind of like not just intentional you want to be obnoxiously
28:31
intentional yeah yeah obnoxiousness is a choice you yeah it’s part it’s part of like I would
28:39
say like even at work like the the place that I work um you know I’m kind of like
28:45
the hype man I’m the vibe guy uh and I do that I do that intentionally I’m also
28:50
I’m the coyote I’m the Mischief maker and I’m I’m the Loki I’m the laugher and I’m you know but I I try to to come into
28:59
a situation and be like hey this sucks and we got to get through it but like
29:04
let’s have let’s I’m GNA manufacture some joy for you while we’re doing it you know like that’s always been kind of
29:11
like my role but I also recognize that it was a role that was necessary so I don’t mind playing that part but that’s
29:18
not all that I am so I know how to be obnoxious and I just like instead of
29:23
like you know people a lot of times they go to movies and they detach or they read a book and they detach um not
29:30
everybody but a lot of times it’s they they call it escapism I’m trying to escape from from like the world that I’m
29:36
dealing with but like why are you going why are you choosing that movie why are
29:42
you choosing that book and that story is there something about the characters or the struggle in which the characters
29:48
have to participate with that you resonate with and that’s what I try to talk about in my book like I’m a big
29:54
nerd why am I cons why do I shoot choose to consume the content that I’m choosing
30:00
to consume what is it about my in my inner being the true nature of my being
30:06
that resonates with that if I really want to cry if I can’t get it out I’ll just go watch a movie that I know that
30:13
will do it and it won’t be like a romantic movie it doesn’t even always have to be a drama it’s just like
30:20
something that touches uh my soul in a certain way and resonates it’s like you
30:25
know like it’s it’s it’s like when you like hit a certain tone if you match a certain like Resonance of like glass you
30:32
can shatter that glass that’s all it is like I’m watching something and it’s shattering a part of me and like and
30:38
breaking into and getting deep into the cracks and and opening me up in ways so
30:46
um yeah I just I just I think it’s important for us to be like these stories and storytelling is important
30:54
we’re the there there’s lessons that are involved like like be present with it even if even if it it’s taking you out
31:01
of your world it’s still trying to show you something about you and your place in your world like stories are important
31:09
yeah they are important I mean that’s why I went to film school that’s why you study that’s why you write a book because it’s like we feel stories are
31:15
really important and you know two things I just wanted to share with you like one thing that I
31:21
really when you go to NYU and I don’t know how it is at other film schools they break up your major into a few
31:27
different different areas you know you’ve got your production classes where you’re learning the trade of how the equipments work and you know and and and
31:34
then there’s the writing classes and then there’s the um film and criticism the history film history and criticism
31:39
classes which are always taught by some uh like ta who’s really obnoxious and takes themselves way too seriously but
31:46
it’s true it’s true do I resonate with that no no is that what you do I’m sorry
31:53
God no sorry about that anyway no you’re fine you’re fine
31:58
so I just remembered a quote that somebody told me about my book and I’ll tell you later okay so anyway when I was
32:04
in film school I really hated those film history classes and the criticism classes partially because of the the um
32:09
Tas who taught them but I missed out on some of that stuff and later on I wound
32:14
up like God this is like 15 years after I graduated I wound up working at this company where I had to produce DVDs of
32:21
foreign art films so a lot of the foreign art film stuff that I had really ignored in a film school I now had to do
32:28
as a job and the one thing that came across to me that I do have an appreciation for now is like in Broad
32:35
Strokes like the big difference between American Cinema and European Cinema is
32:40
that you know we Americans watch for more that emotional experience you know to eat the popcorn and you know just be
32:46
totally riveted where a lot of foreign films especially the European films they’re made because the audience
32:53
understands that the film is a construct now I mean I’m not saying it’s as prevalent as it was back in the 60s 70s
32:58
but there’s this understanding that this is a piece of art and it’s a construct so it’s more of a cerebral thing where
33:04
they’re saying what is the OT saying and and things like that so that’s that’s another way where people and I’m not
33:10
saying I don’t know that that drives self-awareness but I know that there is another way that people engage where it
33:15
really is just they they they they’re looking at it just very differently than we would
33:22
look at it it’s like going to a museum you’re going there because you want to be moved by something you know what I
33:27
mean see that that that kind of filmgoing experience or or Museum experience isn’t necessarily about
33:33
moving it stays it stays very much in the head yeah where it’s like what do they think and what or what are they
33:39
saying about something overall not like how do you feel about it and I and I
33:45
think yeah totally but I think that’s where self-awareness comes in because whether whether us As Americans want to
33:52
accept the fact you know are are aware of it of or conscious of it we are
33:57
addicted into storytelling we are we we we love it we I mean it’s in our
34:02
politics everybody is I think everybody is I mean this is like stories Joseph Campbell I mean this is like oral
34:09
tradition go everybody loves the story it’s how you learned it’s how the knowledge was p and oh the other thing I
34:15
did want to say was that that one of the things to talk about our country in particular is that I do think that where
34:22
we are now is definitely a reflection of the stories we started telling like when I was a kid where we started you know
34:29
when I went to school um at NYU very important graduates
34:35
Martin scres Spike Le I was in school with his daughter Martin scres daughter Kathy she was actually in the program at
34:41
the time but the thing about what they that Martin soresi has done and Francis
34:46
for Copa and a whole bunch of other people is they really normalized criminal Behavior where it’s
34:52
like here’s here’s a sociopath he’s the hero of my film and that’s so many times
34:59
that I think we now are in a society that looks at sociopaths as like yeah nothing wrong with that but
35:07
like if you look at it too like like uh politics is very narrative driven Sports
35:13
is very narrative driven um like it’s it’s it’s all around us storytelling is
35:20
is all around us and I think it’s not only like yeah I mean sto language is
35:25
probably like one I would say that like outside of the discovery of fire and
35:31
maybe even building building a a uh a wheel um language is our first
35:40
technology and story was the was the I mean language is not only our first
35:46
technology it’s the oldest and it’s the one that like has the most effect on us
35:52
as people because of the stories that that we that we tell the stories that
35:57
we’re part of the stories that we tell ourselves that never even never even
36:02
exit our mouth the narratives that we construct in our own mind and for the longest time part of my mental health
36:09
Journey was the story that I created about how I needed certain people in
36:15
order to be safe and they were like the least safe people I’ve ever had in my entire life you know and it’s just it’s
36:22
and that’s that’s what having kind of like a practice of of awareness is
36:27
important to because if you’re honest you need to be honest if you’re honest with yourself one of like the most
36:34
important parts of a a a self-awareness practice is to recognize and own your
36:41
blind spots you know uh my character blind blind spots how I treat people how
36:49
I see myself viewed in which in the community that I’m a part of um and
36:56
really owning um your place in a community and um or
37:02
whether that be work or family or the group of friends that you run with or the people that are strangers but you
37:09
see them on the daily on a daily basis and for me um I’m very filled with rage
37:17
I’m a ra I’m I’m filled with rage but I was taught that my rage can be my
37:23
superpower you know uh Kim was very much like I’m not going to try try to get rid of this we’re going to we’re going to
37:30
we’re going to harness this we’re going to focus this so your rage your did your
37:35
your rage preceded Mark’s death or oh yeah yeah it was just I was always like
37:41
a very I was I’m I’m I’ve always been into like uh I don’t like
37:47
bullies I I I don’t like Injustice um I will fight for the little
37:54
guy um and that that’s always been a part of me and I never understood why it
38:00
was there until I started to like go you know see Kim and and she’s like I’m not going to get rid of this this is part of
38:06
this is a superpower you just don’t know how to use your superpower so it’s important also that like when I see
38:13
things in the world that I try to bring as much compassion not only for myself
38:19
and for my shortfalls but also extending that to my my fellow humans that I have
38:26
to that I inter with or the who have to interact with me on a daily basis and uh
38:32
try to be the best version of myself for me uh and for the people around me and
38:39
that like I can have boundaries like the best of them and like now I feel like I’ve completely eradicated my
38:45
codependency um probably I’ve swung too far to the other side where I’m like
38:52
extremely too independent um but like I can be extreme I have like extreme
38:58
boundaries but still try to bring in some Grace and um and and just I I I
39:04
feel like sometimes the world maybe it’s just my projection because of the energy
39:09
of what we can call rage that exists inside me but I just feel like I want to
39:15
be an Exemplar of decency to to all people that I interact with and that is
39:21
totally been a byproduct of my journey of self-discovery of uh not only be
39:27
decent to myself but to be decent for everybody else that is around me that
39:32
has to come across my path and also uh to let the little guy or little little
39:38
little woman know uh that I’m a that I’m a safe place you
39:45
know what I mean that that I’m that I’m a I’m a lighthouse and that like you’re
39:50
you’re good with me you know the thing I try to um or I
39:56
become more aware of in the last just few years is
40:01
that being incarnate in a body is very difficult and causes all the trouble
40:09
because it’s like food Fire Water Shelter air we need those things to survive and so you know you always have
40:17
to wonder where the stuff is g to come from you know where’s the food gonna come from where’s my shelter going to
40:22
come from and it sets up just that that alone sets up the conflict fct and I try
40:29
to be more patient with everything people I see watching the news like if
40:36
this is what we’re stuck in yeah though though I still think we could do it better but still yeah yeah yeah it’s
40:43
same here I you know I work for my my day job this is all my passion projects
40:49
that I would I have to do in order to survive uh spirit wise and and
40:55
heartwise um but my my to pay the bills work is in a library I work in a public
41:03
library and libraries are really like the last third space in our society like
41:08
a place that you can go to that has you know uh controlled
41:15
temperature it’s warm when it’s cold outside and it’s cool when it’s hot outside and being in Phoenix it’s always
41:21
much more hot than it is uh cool um we’re a refuge for people that don’t
41:28
that that like need it you know we’re not open 24 hours at 7:00 at night they have to go but from 10 in the morning
41:35
till 7 at night they have a safe place to be we the one of the last places in our society that you can you can hang
41:42
out at without the expectation of uh spending money um and because of that
41:50
you know we get a lot of people in need we get and and not just people that are
41:56
are experiencing homelessness uh people that are dealing with mental health issues but also elderly people that just
42:04
or lonely people that just want to have some kind of community um and I I kind
42:11
of like stumbled in to library ship and I realized immediately that I had found
42:18
my people you know and the fact that I love writing it’s like probably I thought you
42:25
were gonna say you love the Dewey deel system no that’s not no I mean no no um
42:31
but uh uh it’s it’s it’s amazing all the stuff that we actually that a library
42:37
does uh give away the one this is like kind of like a nerdy regret that I have
42:42
being the ultimate nerd that I am and I wasn’t working for libraries when I left my job and did the bike ride but just
42:50
being a film nerd the fact that when I was in New York City that I did not go
42:56
to the public library and see the lions from
43:01
Ghostbusters I considered a well I just I just like that that’s I
43:07
have like I was I was a nerd like I went to movies all the time when I was a kid and that was something that I did with
43:12
my brother like he was six years older than me so like during the summertime even when he didn’t have a
43:19
car mom and dad were comfortable dropping me off with my older brother cuz he would look after me and we went
43:24
and saw like every Friday Friday during the summertime we would go see the the
43:30
first showing of every movie so like from the time I was in first grade till
43:37
like I was in sixth or seventh grade yeah so that was just like a thing that we did and then like once I got into
43:42
high school we were going to midnight movies but we did it all the time that
43:47
was like the one thing that no matter you know we no matter how divided we
43:53
were we still had movies
43:58
and which is why reading my book you get a lot of Pop Culture movie
44:04
references but they all I gotta say they all they all work none of them feel you know it’s like part of your train of
44:10
thought but they don’t feel gratuitous like sometimes that kind of stuff does and yeah I really like book no yeah yeah
44:17
but but that’s what I mean like that’s that that’s like definitely a thread that’s in there I I had the one of the I
44:23
had two editors for my book and uh one of them was a a librarian that I had
44:28
worked with for seven years at that point and she’s super high brow she she
44:35
she does not want to read like some you know
44:40
popcorn uh um you know mainstream book she wants highbrow literature all the
44:46
time but she knew me so I I was like I want somebody who like she’s never read
44:52
wild she’s never read into the wild she would consider those those book books to
44:57
be kind of like beneath her and this is kind of like it’s different but it’s kind of like still in the vein of those
45:03
types of like stories and so I wanted her to read it because she would at least like see my
45:09
some of my blind spots and she would I I knew that she would she’s looking for my
45:15
voice she knows my voice so she was like as long as like she can hear it or she
45:20
could read it like I’d be cool with it but there were some pop culture references she just did not get and
45:26
she’s like I don’t understand how you like what is this I’m like you’re not a
45:32
nerd I had to explain it to her and she’s like oh okay yeah that makes sense keep it in
45:37
there so because there’s a lot of stuff that was that just in there and I just think that that’s like a thread that I
45:43
use because that’s that’s part of my personality that’s who I am and I really wanted this book to feel like you were
45:50
hanging out with me like I’m just telling you a story about some weird summer Adventure I did you know and you
45:56
know If You Don’t Know Me Maybe you don’t get that but a lot of people that I do know that have read it they’re like
46:02
I felt like we were just hanging out over a beer and you were just like got back
46:09
from this adventure and you were just telling me everything that happened yeah I don’t know I don’t I didn’t feel that
46:15
way I just no I feel like it’s smarter than that I don’t know I’m not sure if that’s the way I want to put it but it’s
46:23
um and I like too that and no I like too that in a there were only and it only
46:29
was in a couple couple or a few places where you like actually made a comment about your writing while you were
46:35
writing like there was one point where you but you only did it a couple times like if that happened too often it would
46:42
have been but it was only like two or three times there was something you wrote down and you said I realize that’s a lot more I’m not gonna say pervy but
46:48
it was something like that it’s a lot more like pervy is right now that I’ve written that whatever that sentence was
46:54
and I think I know I know what you’re talking about I’m not sure if that’s mod thing or a something else thing but
46:59
anyway it had to do with a woman it did it
47:06
did so changing the subject for a second I did want to ask about the gong bath
47:12
yeah yeah big moment tell me what a gong bath is or tell everybody a gong bath is
47:17
and what it did when it was first introduced to me it was called the gong bath and that term still used but it’s
47:25
also like sound medit or sound bath um but like so I I
47:33
this this woman had this event this like fundraiser for us and she had like this
47:38
big barn in her backyard which is weird for like a small house in Phoenix but
47:44
she had like this big barn and this guy just set up he had this huge massive probably like six foot in diameter gong
47:51
it was just massive and then he had all these other like uh like s like like
47:57
indigenous types of like instruments and you just lay there and
48:04
they kind of start you through like a guided meditation and then they shut up and they just let the sound do its thing
48:11
and I wanted to be as close as I possibly could to the gong and the the
48:19
vibrations just kind of like wash over you and it gets me high like
48:27
and like when when I come out of of that um I don’t always have like weird
48:33
Visions when I’m on them I don’t always have like weird interactions but sometimes it just like go to sleep and
48:40
it knocks me out and I when I wake up I’m completely altered it takes me a while to um um to come
48:49
to and it’s just it’s probably uh one of my my favorite things to do uh my
48:56
partner Sharon she does like a lot of sound meditation so sometimes she’ll just like all lay down and she’ll put
49:03
the these Crystal singing bowls all around me and then she’ll just play them in different and so like I’ve got
49:09
different uh sound frequencies from all different angles playing around me and it’s just it’s just it’s very meditative
49:16
before I even got into this one of like back when I was like experimenting with meditation before I met Kim like years
49:23
before I met Kim I I got into um binaural beats and the the concept of
49:30
binormal binaural beats and I bought like a CD and I had my disc man and I would put it on every single night
49:36
before I would go to bed and um you know I I just always found it fascinating
49:42
that even if I wasn’t participating in cannabis and I wasn’t around any
49:48
cannabis while at a concert that you kind of come out altered like sound just
49:56
has a way of of of Shifting you in some
50:01
way and and um the gong bath that we did in in Phoenix when we returned
50:08
completely altered me and showed me things um it’s it’s a
50:15
big thing of like where the turtle came in and uh just understanding uh that I
50:21
myself am a turtle and that you know if I try to rush I’ll have people that I work with like hey you want to you want
50:28
to race and how how fast you can you can organize this cart before we take it out to shelf and I’m like no like why not I
50:35
was like because I know my Pace I know my Cadence and uh if I try to race you I’m
50:42
gonna go beyond the bounds of my turtled them and I’m gonna mess things up funny
50:48
thing is when I first when I read your initial gong bath story where you felt you you had a vision where you
50:55
were like lying on the back of a turtle like a giant turtle um and the turtle does show up but that one struck me as
51:02
like the mythology of the world Turtle I mean I don’t know if you’re familiar with that because I was like that’s that’s the world Turtle you’re on the
51:08
big turtle so I was like that’s cool some of that is like in there I’m a big
51:15
like Easter egg fan like I knew what it meant to me at that time and that’s what I was like trying to like Express um but
51:23
like I didn’t totally know what you’re what you’re talking about I mean even when I was in New York City I I I love
51:31
New York I’m a big nature person but like I love New York there’s just every
51:37
like there’s just something about it that’s like that’s that’s just it’s it’s so beautiful to me but I still kept my
51:44
turtle Pace I was like they’ll walk around me you know I’m gonna enjoy oh you were one of those guys on the side
51:50
walk yeah I’m just going to like uh you know and people would just cuz if I
51:56
tried to keep up with everybody yeah I was I was doing I was getting more in
52:01
the way than I was like with you know it’s kind of like like a river and you throw
52:08
like a big boulder into the middle of a of a Rushing River like the river is going to go around it it’s better to
52:15
almost like be so slow that you’re still where everything just moves around you
52:20
rather than being chaotic and and moving and where you could be bumping into people so I was like I’m going at my
52:27
Pace I’m GNA enjoy I’m I’m soaking this place in okay
52:33
so my partner like has a lot of experience with New York City she’s like
52:39
no you you would get over it in about like a you’d be over it in about a month you are a desert you are a slow desert
52:46
boy and I was like well so gonna ask you a formal question now out of the blue like um is there anything now it’s it’s
52:53
been gosh it’s been 23 years since Mark died and 12 years since you completed
53:02
your quest or at least that big part of the facei is there anything that you wish that people knew about suicide
53:09
survivors like was there anything what was lacking in grief for you when I
53:15
think like the best thing I think the best thing that anybody can do is
53:21
just sit there give yourself give give the person that is grieving your your
53:27
time all right there’s nothing you’re going to say that can that can fix their
53:34
pain or eliminate their pain or ease their pain um I don’t even know if
53:39
whatever they say will make any sense to you but if you just sit there and like share space with them and share your
53:47
time with them and listen to them um that’s the best thing you can do is
53:53
just is just like having not being isolated when when you’re going through
53:59
that that’s like that’s the only advice that I’d ever give because the you’re not going to know what to say and if you just try to like fill the Silence with
54:07
with with words you know you you could be do you could end up doing more damage like I’ve
54:14
lost I know what it’s like to lose somebody and there and I know when I go
54:19
and I sit with somebody who’s had that same experience I’m not going to tell them like hey they can get through this
54:25
I just sit with with them and I I allow them to be as raw and real and whatever
54:32
state that looks like you know if if you’re if you’re mad be mad you know if
54:38
you’re if you’re filled with rage if you’re crying if you’re just like a sad
54:43
puddle in a fetal position with snot coming out of your nose like hey I I see
54:49
you and that’s totally fine you have every reason to feel this way you know
54:55
you want to give them some of their space there’s also it’s not as you said earlier like it is not
55:02
grief is not linear um I don’t even know sometimes if it’s a spiral it seems to be like an
55:09
erratic line that goes up down all around and goes backwards and forwards
55:14
and sideways and you know and so it’s really important for you to to write
55:20
your own Playbook you know to write your own your own how to get better how to
55:26
heal um it’s definitely it is a cliche but the only way out is through and you
55:32
have to allow yourself the time and space to like feel that and just know that it it is a journey um one thing
55:39
that I realized in my own journey is that after I’ve felt something as much
55:45
as I possibly can and what I’m about to say is a place
55:51
that we all can come to and it is a great point of privilege and I don’t want I don’t want to say this uh and I
55:58
don’t want to seem callous as I’m saying this because I know that it takes a great deal of time to get to this point
56:04
but when you get to a point where you’re able to like kind of take a step back
56:10
you felt everything you’re going to feel about it and you take a step back and you’re able to see your grief as an
56:16
experience outside of you you get to come to the point where you say now what
56:23
and when you ask that question that is a very important step in your healing
56:28
journey in grief because now what is you’re come to a choice am I going to be
56:35
a victim of this where I’m just going to be woe as me and this is going to be something that helps me sink or am I going to become a student of this
56:42
experience and learn how to like transcend and and evolve and grow it doesn’t mean that like the pain goes
56:49
away you just it just transforms you learn how to carry it you learn how to hold it it becomes a part of you um
56:56
I always think it also it also is not as intense as time goes on yeah you know I
57:02
don’t know if that’s a physiological thing either where your body can only do that so many times but yeah the pain is
57:08
still there but it’s something you can you can live with I thought you were going to say and I think it’s something
57:13
you mentioned and it’s something I’ve asked other people about like that that point you get to
57:19
where if you could change everything and bring back the person you lost would you
57:24
do it and and I I can’t I I know you can’t but but but the thing is you
57:31
mentioned somewhere that no no no like like I have I have living with
57:39
me like like an example of that question all the time and I’m not saying I can’t
57:45
because I physically can’t I’m saying that like if my brother is here how do I
57:51
meet my partner that’s exactly it your life has Tak this whole different trajectory and
57:57
you say I wouldn’t know I know for me and some other people I’ve spoken to I wouldn’t know what I know about
58:05
life about myself or the relationships you had if these this terrible thing
58:11
hadn’t happened if if if my brother doesn’t die I don’t meet Sharon right
58:17
you know and I can’t like yeah Sharon’s a love of my
58:24
life there’s no way I meet her 3,000 miles away you know across 10 years of
58:32
time I’m not going on that bike ride if my brother’s still here I might have
58:37
ridden my bike across the country but who knows if I’m going to the chapel of sacred mirrors I’m definitely not doing
58:42
it for suicide awareness yeah you know like I just so I I she I every single
58:48
time I see her like that like she exemplifies like you can’t go back you
58:56
know what I mean so like it’s that it is that thing it’s like you wouldn’t know what you know you wouldn’t have the
59:02
relationship you have you wouldn’t have become become aware about life in a certain way your whole identity would be
59:08
different so it’s hard it’s a it’s a paradox but I just I I bring it up because you know I’ve spoken to some
59:14
people a couple months ago I was interviewing a guy whose son at 23 had
59:21
died and he it’s only been three years ago and so his answer is I want to of course I want back you know I if I could
59:28
change things I want him back and it’s it’s like something happens though over
59:33
that longer period of time where you you accept that things had to be that way or
59:39
that’s the way they are I’m not sure whichever spin you want to put on it and because your your whole you’re you’re
59:46
you there’s a purpose somewhere in there if you’ve engaged with your grief like properly I guess yeah yeah I I would
59:53
always just say like what is is you know I mean like and if and if if I’m going
59:59
to be against what is I’m creating Strife I always tell
1:00:05
people when somebody when somebody shows you their nature like trust that not you
1:00:11
know what I mean like if I know if I have a dog and I I don’t I don’t have a
1:00:16
yard this might make sense for people that live in apartments in in New York
1:00:21
um if you have a dog and you know that like every four hours they have to go outside to go to the bathroom bathroom all right that you need to be taken for
1:00:28
a walk and then you decide one day you’re going to go out on a Friday or Saturday night and you’re going to be
1:00:34
out for five or six hours and you come home and there’s poop and piss everywhere like how can you be mad
1:00:41
that’s this thing’s nature that’s the like when something happens in the world
1:00:47
like resistance can create struggle if you’re willing to go through that
1:00:54
struggle you know take then then resist but if it’s something that has happened
1:00:59
and you can’t take back like death like a suicide that resistance that that
1:01:05
struggle you’re just creating more tension you’re creating more struggle you’re Crea like like you you have to
1:01:10
learn how to not resist and it’s a part of part of grief of is just resisting that it takes a lot of time to be able
1:01:18
to like accept what is when you’ve lost something like that and maybe it takes
1:01:23
some time to accept the what is if you lost lost a job or if a partner broke up with you or you you had a falling out
1:01:31
with a friend or a family member like it’s the same thing like like you have to come to a terms of like acceptance or
1:01:38
you’re not going to be able to move Beyond it you know you it’s it’s won’t be healthy for you like I know that you
1:01:45
missed this person and that you want them back desperately but you’re not allowing yourself the space to grow and
1:01:53
more than anything the people that we lost to Suicide would probably want us
1:01:59
to continue to live our lives I don’t think that they’re ending their lives to get back at us I don’t think they’re
1:02:05
ending their lives to to punish us I don’t think that they’re ending their
1:02:11
lives even because they wanted to end their lives they just wanted to stop their pain and they did not want to
1:02:18
transfer their pain onto us so in order to like honor them it almost becomes
1:02:24
like our our mission like if we want to truly honor the person that we lost we
1:02:29
have to live for them like to me like you like like you I I had to live for my
1:02:35
brother you know he wouldn’t want me to just sit and wallow he would want me to
1:02:40
continue he would want me to strive to achieve things that that uh that turn me
1:02:46
on and and Light My Fire and and and set my soul a blaze like you would want me
1:02:51
to do that so I am going to do that because he can’t do it for himself yeah and I think that phase is also what
1:02:59
you’re talking about is very common to everybody in grief over any kind of loss however it’s come about there’s that
1:03:05
part where you have to let go of your grief and you feel like you’re going to be abandoning that person or abandoning
1:03:10
the relationship or abandoning the love and that’s not it because as soon as you think you know would your loved one want
1:03:18
you to be doing this no I I was tell
1:03:23
again in another interview I realized there was certain point where after my sister died I was talking to her you know in my
1:03:31
head more than I ever would if she was still alive like if I was talking to her that much in life she would have been
1:03:36
like get the hell off of me and leave me alone I’ve got I’ve got stuff to do yeah and I think it’s the same when
1:03:45
even when you’re they’re gone it’s like get on with it you know so yeah yeah but
1:03:51
it takes time takes time to get it does take time and and I think that like you know
1:03:56
I talk about it a little bit in the book of how I learned from other people like Iris Bolton is that like you know the
1:04:04
bike ride was a way for me to have continue a relationship with my brother
1:04:09
um the book is definitely a way that I’ve continued to keep a relationship
1:04:15
with my brother um you know I’m I’m a I’m a big nerd I’m a huge like I was he
1:04:21
he gave me his comic book collection when I was like in second grade and I’ve been a comic book nerd and superhero
1:04:28
nerd my entire life I even collected a lot of the Trinkets and stuff and when
1:04:34
he died I lost that part of me and it wasn’t until I went on the bike ride
1:04:40
again that I started like when I got back home like that part of me that was
1:04:47
always there was able to like go back into that world and and and read comic
1:04:53
books and collect some trinkets um Sharon wasn’t expecting that to
1:04:59
happen she’s like oh my God you’re a nerd I was like fooled
1:05:05
you but like you know and and that’s one thing that I’m glad that I got back like
1:05:10
I I I I I found myself I found my potential on this bike ride and uh I’m
1:05:16
grateful for it I had to go through like like again like I’m a turtle that’s also represents like my learning curve it
1:05:23
takes me a long a long time to get from one place to another um in my journey
1:05:29
and I’m I I’m now okay with that and I’m I’m comfortable with my Pace on How I
1:05:34
Learned things and I wouldn’t have found that Comfort Within Myself unless I took
1:05:40
on this Mission you know cuz like you know it took 12 and a half 13 months to
1:05:47
prepare for it and I would have probably wanted like at least three or four more
1:05:52
months to prepare for it and then it took seven months to get across the country and then yeah I gotta say Thomas
1:05:59
I was shocked shocked to but I mean you were a younger guy to read that like on
1:06:04
your first day of the ride you had to bike a distance you hadn’t biked before
1:06:10
like you hadn’t gone you hadn’t done like 50 miles yet and it was like oh wow
1:06:17
that’s gonna be brutal and it was it was I was dumb it you were a younger man you
1:06:24
know you’re you’re you’re when you’re still like I mean you’re in your 40s somewhere yeah so yeah when you’re and
1:06:32
when you’re younger and you have all that energy you just feel like yeah I can find the Reserves I’ll just pull it out of there and I mean you did you
1:06:39
certainly did which you know but I was like wow yeah that’s when you
1:06:45
just wow never bite 50 miles before gonna do it on terrain hilly terrain
1:06:51
terrain with wind dark gray
1:06:57
wet Hills like we don’t have Hills in in the valley like we’ve got Hill we’ve got Hills in the state but like I didn’t
1:07:04
have the time to go you know practice on those I I had to go to work so yeah it was wild it it was
1:07:12
pretty dumb but you did it you did it I mean
1:07:17
yeah you did it and you figured out your systems on the road you know who taking taking the breakes and stuff so that was
1:07:23
great I mean you did it so and that’s I mean that’s part of any Journey you don’t start out like at your
1:07:31
Peak strength you know what I mean you you even if you think you’re at your Peak Peak strength it the the beginning
1:07:38
is still going to be hard yeah you know and then you get to the end and you’re like all right I I didn’t know I could
1:07:46
be this strong you know the other thing I want to salute you for in your book too is like you’re honest I like I like
1:07:53
that that you’re sitting in there you’re not trying to make yourself look any better any worse you know you you’re
1:08:00
you’re there talking about when your mind takes a turn and like you’re dealing with the anxiety and fear and
1:08:06
how quickly it comes up we all deal with that when you’re doing something even that you want to do like you wanted to
1:08:11
do this you planned to do it but it was still those elements were in there so
1:08:17
yeah it’s always ner nerve-wracking especially if even if you’ve done it like you know it
1:08:23
wasn’t you know we public speaking has never been like my favorite thing in the world and I went
1:08:32
from you know we had intimate um settings where there’s only six people
1:08:38
that showed up and the room that we were in could have probably only fit 15 more
1:08:43
um so we weren’t that far off to being in an auxiliary gym where there’s like 500 to a thousand people and speaking in
1:08:51
front of them and like you always even when I came back home for like the first year to like I did like a lot of public
1:08:57
speaking events for the crisis centers around here like it’s never you just you got like there’s
1:09:05
there’s like a nervousness about anything anything that you love or that you do and I think that’s also its own
1:09:10
energy you know what I mean and learning how to like harness that energy and use it like I always say like
1:09:17
anxiety can be a great alarm system or at least like a measurement of where
1:09:24
you’re at and you know so am I going to let that energy dictate my movement or am I going
1:09:31
to be conscious and aware of it and I’m going to use it you know to keep me going but I’m G to actually dictate my
1:09:39
movement my Cadence my breath and it just it it kind of like it just it’s a
1:09:45
reminder of like hey you know pay attention to your body pay attention to your body pay attention to your body so
1:09:52
um yeah I think even when you really really really really really want to do
1:09:57
something it’s still scary so you might as well do it you know what I mean
1:10:03
you’re gonna like what’s regret of not doing it is is more daunting than
1:10:09
actually doing it you know what I mean so just do it you love it
1:10:15
so okay I’m gonna ask you the lightning round of questions which are my final questions all right let’s do it because
1:10:21
it’s time okay so what does a well-lived life look like to you Thomas
1:10:29
Brown finding your own pace your own happiness whatever that happiness is
1:10:34
like the thing about cultivating self-awareness um I’m never going to write a book that says the 10 things you
1:10:40
should do because you should write that book for yourself um so for me it’s it’s
1:10:46
about being happy and happy doesn’t always mean content it means being happy
1:10:52
finding Joy being able to like laugh not as a deterrent from pain or hardship but
1:11:00
in spite of it you know what I mean uh that I am you’re not going to kill my
1:11:05
joy uh laughter is good medicine to me it is the ultimate medicine and I will
1:11:11
find a way to laugh and I will make sure that everybody hears it no matter sounds
1:11:17
threat thas I will find a way to laugh well I me like that’s like I’m known I
1:11:22
work at a library it’s probably like 100 50 yards from my department to like the
1:11:28
Youth Department and I have people from the Youth Department be like oh I didn’t know you were working today and then I
1:11:34
heard you laugh you know I’m extremely loud and
1:11:39
like I laugh and like people can hear it and people can know it like know that it’s me it’s very distinct and I just
1:11:45
think it’s important to laugh and I’m going to bring the joy because somebody’s listening and they might need
1:11:51
to hear some obnoxious idiotic laugh to help I me I am not disagreeing with you
1:11:58
like I’m a person who who can laugh at a funeral and I’m not doing it to be IR Reverend but it’s like if you see if you
1:12:04
see the Absurd thing that happens and especially in like life and death things it’s like that’s that absurdity is such
1:12:12
the nature of life you can’t let it go sometimes so I have a very dark sense of
1:12:18
humor too so I figured so what do you suspect is the
1:12:25
true nature of reality as somebody who’s gone through some versions of it it would
1:12:31
seem I think that this reality is a living
1:12:37
thing it’s it’s its own and and we live in a symbiotic relationship call it God
1:12:43
or whatever there is a Marvel character a Marvel Comics character its name is
1:12:49
eternity and this was like my impression of of God as like a young kid
1:12:56
and it’s this it’s this Cosmic being that can separ that can
1:13:02
materialize as it as the as it is and to have an interaction with Mortal beings
1:13:09
but all of existence is within its body and so to
1:13:15
me like um I think like to me like you know things like mythology is just like
1:13:21
our trying to understand what that is and the gods that we really like that
1:13:27
have become characters in our stories are more connected to our emotions and
1:13:33
how we feel about things um where actual existence itself a reality itself itself
1:13:40
is its own entity and and and its own living being that we are we have a symbiotic relationship with and whether
1:13:47
it’s aware of us or cares about us is irrelevant it’s just a thing that we’re a part of and uh it’s it’s we’re in its
1:13:57
ecosystem and um so we should take care of it in hopes that it will take care of
1:14:03
[Laughter] us how do you feel that people should stay connected to their soul or their
1:14:10
Consciousness or in your case cultivate self-awareness I just think that like
1:14:16
you know you got to find your your own system for me I really broke it down into character and and and body like the
1:14:24
first thing was to get in touch with my body and that’s like just doing like breathing meditations I started off
1:14:29
doing it a lot where I would do it like uh right before bed that would be like my primary time and then I started like
1:14:36
adding like I would do it like 30 minutes before bed and then maybe in the morning like 10 or 15 minutes just to
1:14:42
get me going but the more and more that I did that I realized that I could do like little micro bursts and just do
1:14:48
like 10 minutes every two hours um and just get in touch with my body and and
1:14:55
like that was like my first because once I knew I got in touch with my body once I learned my body a little bit more and
1:15:00
I’m still learning my body I start to understand how it feels in certain situations and with certain interactions
1:15:07
and experiences whether it’s Joy or Despair and everything in between um and
1:15:13
then after that I started to delve further into my character really analyze
1:15:18
how I’m acting and how I’m behaving and uh you know this person that might have
1:15:23
pissed me off um were they in the right you know and I really like like through
1:15:29
meditation of examining my feelings when I’m in a med meditative space uh to be
1:15:35
honest with myself even if it hurts like saying I’m I’m sorry and that I I I’m at
1:15:42
fault is really really hard and I think that uh uh cultivating self-awareness
1:15:48
it’s important to do that because um that’s that helps you understand you
1:15:54
know that helps you to to shape your character and to be a to be a better
1:16:00
person and I think goodness is important decency is important and if I want to
1:16:07
see it in the world I have to make sure that I that I’m ex an example of that
1:16:13
and I fail every single day and I succeed every single day so um but you have to be pay be literally paying
1:16:20
attention to it so yeah I talked to a lot of people like management of the ego go it’s a tricky one it’s a tricky one
1:16:28
you’re stuck with it you’re never going to get rid of your ego a friend of mine once said if you if you show me somebody
1:16:34
without an ego I’ll show you a corpse like it’s it’s the idea of not is not getting rid of it the idea is
1:16:40
building a relationship with it and to not let it drive sometimes
1:16:45
like take the keys yeah yeah yeah when you die what do you hope to find or
1:16:53
learn or discover Man part of me wishes I can manifest
1:16:59
like a silver surfboard and just Cruise the cosmos and Multiverse I think that
1:17:04
would be fun um whether or not I I I’m that’s still a big question question
1:17:11
mark to me I’m not going to say that there isn’t anything out there whether or not my ego makes it with my
1:17:18
Consciousness so whatever my Consciousness is outside of Thomas Brown
1:17:25
um I hope it uh gets to be playful and and does its own form of
1:17:34
laughing uh on the other side where can people find you and the work that you’re
1:17:40
up to uh go to rise phoenix. org that is going to be the primary website I have
1:17:46
some old uh podcasts that are on there where I inter I do long format interviews with people about their
1:17:52
mental health and their Journey um there’s ‘s also a link to my book 2012 a Bicycle Odyssey uh and there’s links to
1:17:59
other social media platforms that we’re connected to hold up again um are you working on any other
1:18:07
books I don’t know how long how long did it take you to do this one and I say saying it like in a [ __ ] way I’m just saying it like it took it took me 12
1:18:14
years like it definitely took me some time to to write uh to to find my voice
1:18:20
I think doing the podcast at the time in which I did them helped me um writing this book with was like facing my own
1:18:26
another Dragon uh because I was made fun of a lot for uh how I would write
1:18:32
because I wasn’t a good speller and I didn’t have good sentence structure and so this took a long time to be able to
1:18:38
learn a lot of those things I’m still not a good speller I’m I’m a spell correct I’m a grammarly kind of guy but
1:18:45
um like no I was made fun of like horrendously which is why I became much more of a visual artist and uh one this
1:18:52
has like given me confidence that I can that I can write that I can put together the the the written word and there’s
1:18:59
nothing more satisfying than finding uh a stringing some words together to
1:19:05
convey a thought and a feeling because there isn’t one word that just Nails it
1:19:10
you know so whether it’s a sentence or a paragraph like it’s it’s one of the most satisfying feelings in the world when
1:19:16
you finally find those words you’re like there it is I’m I’m good with that so um
1:19:23
yeah I writing two different I’m working on two different projects right now one
1:19:29
is a followup to this it will probably be much shorter I’m still like in the outline phase but it’s more of like My
1:19:36
Philosophy it’s like the rise philosophy on Mental Health um so that one will
1:19:43
probably be like maybe 50 pages to 100 100 pages long I don’t think to me I
1:19:49
don’t think philosophy books need to be any bigger than that let’s just get direct right to the point what you’re
1:19:55
trying to say um being self-publishing kind of gives me the power to be able to do that um and then I’ve always been
1:20:02
fascinated by gnosticism and I wrote a screenplay a short
1:20:09
screenplay back in 2010 that was inspired by the band Tool
1:20:15
song that they performed and um so I wanted to turn that into a graphic novel
1:20:23
but I’ve decided to just write the story so I have an anthology series that is
1:20:30
very sci-fi fantasy but it’s a modern day Gnostic tale and that one I’m having
1:20:36
a lot of fun with okay keep us posted keep me posted yeah yeah hopefully it won’t take 12
1:20:45
years but you never know these things are hold on their own schedule so totally
1:20:52
totally so any final thoughts for the audience know
1:20:57
thyself okay know thyself I talked right over that know thyself know
1:21:05
thyself this has been awesome I I had a wonderful time I really really
1:21:10
appreciate it thanks Thomas thanks for watching click to join
1:21:16
us on another journey and don’t forget to subscribe [Music]
